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Old 05-06-2019, 12:38 PM   #1
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I Need To Enlarge My Deck.

Just had the opportunity to chat with my neighbor from down in the tony, 50 amp end of the park. He's a retired welder.

The kind of welder that worked in commissioning nuclear power plants, so you know he's no slouch with a stick (or a MIG, TIG, wire, or purt near any other sort of welding there may be)!

I have been thinking of buying or renting a stick welder. Tho the last time I fused metal was an embarrassingly long time ago, in HS Metal Shop. My seams always looked suspiciously like an iron rabbit had just relieved itself...

Anyhoo, told him of my intent to put up an @ 8' X 20' roof deck, using square stock tube steel.

He rejoined with telling me about his stockpile of angle iron, and the rust reasons for why that'd be a better option.

Soooooo... Which would be the preferred material of choice? All of one or the other, or maybe a combination of the two?

I'm envisioning square for the pillars & posts, bare minimum, the studs mounted onto the ribs: at, or just above, the rain gutter.

And while my deck will be resting on the 2 transverse rails running the roofs' length, it's to be shimmed up several inches with square stock between them & the deck's underside.

Planning on removable rail posts that can be slipped into receiver collars on the pillars' top end (just above deck height), when not in transit.

[Not pertinent to the primary question, but to then connect them with running rails of turnbuckled rope/cable (better option for weight), or solid angle iron rails that can be fabricated to slip on (" " " strength). Feel free to chime in on that too, please!]

To minimize the the strain on my admittedly way limited welding skills, I reckon that the deck underlayment could then be constructed of pre-tapped angle iron, and then mostly bolted together in situ, with lock washers & LOTSA Lok-Tite on the threads.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
My seams always looked suspiciously like an iron rabbit had just relieved itself...
'Stacking turds' instead of 'stacking dimes'.


Quote:
Soooooo... Which would be the preferred material of choice? All of one or the other, or maybe a combination of the two?
I was considering angle iron (before I decided to eliminate all that weight altogether) over tube stock.....seems there'd be little difference strength-wise, but angle would trap less moisture.


Quote:
[Not pertinent to the primary question, but to then connect them with running rails of turnbuckled rope/cable (better option for weight), or solid angle iron rails that can be fabricated to slip on (" " " strength). Feel free to chime in on that too, please!]
At some point I'll be adding conduit uprights with nylon rope stringers (for weight considerations). Conduit will drop through a hole in the decking and slide into a receiver mounted on the side of the joist underneath. Obviously not as strong as the solid rails you envision, but it would be something to grab if I was clumsy enough to tumble over it....the conduit should then bend slowly and gracefully and lower me gently to the ground.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:35 AM   #3
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Thanx for the reply! I get so few responses to my posts that I've started to gear my BO is somehow being transmitted over the Interweb.

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Originally Posted by plfking View Post
'Stacking turds' instead of 'stacking dimes'
Seem to recall that the correct technical terminology was, "laying Bunny Berries."

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Originally Posted by plfking View Post
I was considering angle iron (before I decided to eliminate all that weight altogether) over tube stock.....seems there'd be little difference strength-wise, but angle would trap less moisture.
Agreed on the moisture trappage, even with caps and a weep hole. I remain unconvinced that angle trumps tube for the supports, particularly since I wanna park posts in them when camping for a while.
Connecting the frame seems more problematical with the angle stock.
I'm guessing your rethink on installing a deck came up unfavorably, thus, "eliminating weight"..?
If not, do tell!

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... it would be something to grab if I was clumsy enough to tumble over it....the conduit should then bend slowly and gracefully and lower me gently to the ground.
ROFLMAO
It sounds like a most idyllic way to spaz off over the side!
Me, I don't mind falling. It's the abrupt stop at the end that makes my a$$ drag...
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:33 AM   #4
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https://youtu.be/XmHWg3dhEGQ


couldnt resist........
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Old 05-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #5
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LMAO
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https://youtu.be/XmHWg3dhEGQ


couldnt resist........
From where do you suppose the title was inspired?
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:56 PM   #6
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I'm guessing your rethink on installing a deck came up unfavorably, thus, "eliminating weight"..?
If not, do tell!
No, I still built it. But while pondering 18' of angle iron bolted to the ribs, and 18' of 2 x 4 bolted to that as a joist, I realized that that much angle iron was unnecessary expense and weight, since it would only be bolted at the ribs. So I just used heavy-duty L brackets....bolted to each rib, joists bolted to the brackets, decking screwed onto the joists.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:12 PM   #7
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Think I'm seeing it... Are there any build pix already posted of your project I might peek at?
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No, I still built it. But while pondering 18' of angle iron bolted to the ribs, and 18' of 2 x 4 bolted to that as a joist, I realized that that much angle iron was unnecessary expense and weight, since it would only be bolted at the ribs. So I just used heavy-duty L brackets....bolted to each rib, joists bolted to the brackets, decking screwed onto the joists.
How long ago did you do the install, about how many miles since, and how's it holding up?

Inquiring minds want to know! (And I'm one knosey mo-fo...)
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
Think I'm seeing it... Are there any build pix already posted of your project I might peek at?How long ago did you do the install, about how many miles since, and how's it holding up?

Inquiring minds want to know! (And I'm one knosey mo-fo...)
Link to his build page is at the bottom of all his posts, go there and read the whole thread.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:48 PM   #9
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Not seeing no linkage, found the build thread on his profile.

272 entries...

I'll start perusing mañana!

iGracias, señor!
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Link to his build page is at the bottom of all his posts, go there and read the whole thread.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:52 PM   #10
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Not seeing no linkage, found the build thread on his profile.

272 entries...

I'll start perusing mañana!

iGracias, señor!
The bottom of his post:

The Busted Flush click on it.
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:55 PM   #11
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The bottom of his post:

The Busted Flush click on it.
If I saw it on my fon I surely would. Like I said- no such linkage appears. Might need to update the app...
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:22 PM   #12
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How long ago did you do the install, about how many miles since, and how's it holding up?
Finished the deck extension earlier this year. I've only put about 100 miles on it since then, but they have been hard miles.....been taking 10- and 20-mile 'shakedown' cruises to test my attachments for various items (cabinets, ceiling, awnings, and yes, even the deck). Potholed pavement, dirt roads, and farm tracks....thinking a fail now is better than in the Utah badlands 5 years from now. Nothing has loosened yet.

I used 5/16" bolts and 5/32" thick brackets for the deck. 16 bolts to anchor 2-300 pounds of wood is over-engineering to the extreme, but I'm confident the only way it's coming off is upon impact at the bottom of a cliff.
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File Type: jpg bolts and brackets.jpg (7.9 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg bolts and brackets 2.jpg (10.3 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg deck.jpg (12.3 KB, 71 views)
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:07 AM   #13
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Thank you do much for the hardware list, shakedown specs, & pix! I subscribed to your build thread, but 272 entries to wade thru at 2200?! meh...

Like a Ronco ad, "But wait, there's more!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by plfking View Post
Finished the deck extension earlier this year. I've only put about 100 miles on it since then, but they have been hard miles.....been taking 10- and 20-mile 'shakedown' cruises to test my attachments for various items (cabinets, ceiling, awnings, and yes, even the deck). Potholed pavement, dirt roads, and farm tracks....thinking a fail now is better than in the Utah badlands 5 years from now. Nothing has loosened yet.

I used 5/16" bolts and 5/32" thick brackets for the deck. 16 bolts to anchor 2-300 pounds of wood is over-engineering to the extreme, but I'm confident the only way it's coming off is upon impact at the bottom of a cliff.
Appears to be 2X4 rails and 2X2 stringers (secured, or floating?) running lengthwise, yes? 2X6 or 2X8 planks? What did you use to block water thru the screw holes? Similarly, what welting is in between the hatch and interior? And where are those aforementioned slo-mo Peter Pan posts..?

I've envisioned my planks running lengthwise- fewer cuts and better prices/foot using long stock. Reckon it could be done using your ingenious method, tho it'd take a number of some fancy cuttings to accommodate the roof's curvature across.

I've never said this to another man, so apologies in advance. You sure got you a purty deck!
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
Thank you do much for the hardware list, shakedown specs, & pix! I subscribed to your build thread, but 272 entries to wade thru at 2200?! meh...

Like a Ronco ad, "But wait, there's more!"Appears to be 2X4 rails and 2X2 stringers (secured, or floating?) running lengthwise, yes? 2X6 or 2X8 planks? What did you use to block water thru the screw holes? Similarly, what welting is in between the hatch and interior? And where are those aforementioned slo-mo Peter Pan posts..?

I've envisioned my planks running lengthwise- fewer cuts and better prices/foot using long stock. Reckon it could be done using your ingenious method, tho it'd take a number of some fancy cuttings to accommodate the roof's curvature across.

I've never said this to another man, so apologies in advance. You sure got you a purty deck!
I plan on angle brackets to hold plywood sides of the deck to be inline with the sides of the bus - then plywood cross pieces cut to the shape of the roof with 2" x 2" gussets along the top of the cross pieces and sides to give purchase to the deck plywood - - picture a frame around the circumference of the roof with trusses every 2' or however the hat channels are spaced - 3" of spray foam insulation will be sprayed on top of the metal roof using the plywood frame as a guide - then 5/8" tongue and groove plywood for the deck, then rubber filament roofing over the top and sides of the deck, giving the bus the appearance of a flat roof - sloped at the front to cut wind resistance - a folding hand rail or storage can be placed on top if desired
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:36 AM   #15
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Welcome, and thanx for weighing in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
I plan on angle brackets to hold plywood sides of the deck to be inline with the sides of the bus - then plywood cross pieces cut to the shape of the roof with 2" x 2" gussets along the top of the cross pieces and sides to give purchase to the deck plywood - - picture a frame around the circumference of the roof with trusses every 2' or however the hat channels are spaced - 3" of spray foam insulation will be sprayed on top of the metal roof using the plywood frame as a guide - then 5/8" tongue and groove plywood for the deck, then rubber filament roofing over the top and sides of the deck, giving the bus the appearance of a flat roof - sloped at the front to cut wind resistance - a folding hand rail or storage can be placed on top if desired
So, if I'm seeing what you're seeing: ply strips running lengthwise above the rain gutters, angle bracketed to the ribs, and serving both as perimeter support AND as a retaining wall for the foam..? (Betcha all that exterior insulation will have an amazing effect on modulating internal temps, warm & cold climates!)

Those curved pieces will be piles easier to cut out of plywood rather than timbers!!!

Is 5/8 TnG stronge enough for a deck? I'm making over head compartments, using the same stuff to floor them. Not worried in this application, coz won't be subjected to nearly the same weight stresses. ( actually, they're smack dab between 5/8 & 3/4, not that it much matters. Just my anal retentive scientific training showing...)

The rubber filament- is that some sort of non-skid roll or panel?

Forward slope has long been in my design, too. I calculate with such a humongous spoiler I oughta be able to go like a bat outta hell! Briefly pondered on a rearward sloping deck, but with that much lift I'd need to register my bus with the FAA...

Hat channels... I've read that term multiple times here, but haven't had any urgency to scout out the definition. It sounds like the resulting forehead crease after wearing a too tight cap for too long...
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Old 05-08-2019, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
Welcome, and thanx for weighing in!



So, if I'm seeing what you're seeing: ply strips running lengthwise above the rain gutters, angle bracketed to the ribs, and serving both as perimeter support AND as a retaining wall for the foam..? (Betcha all that exterior insulation will have an amazing effect on modulating internal temps, warm & cold climates!)

Those curved pieces will be piles easier to cut out of plywood rather than timbers!!!

Is 5/8 TnG stronge enough for a deck? I'm making over head compartments, using the same stuff to floor them. Not worried in this application, coz won't be subjected to nearly the same weight stresses. ( actually, they're smack dab between 5/8 & 3/4, not that it much matters. Just my anal retentive scientific training showing...)

The rubber filament- is that some sort of non-skid roll or panel?

Forward slope has long been in my design, too. I calculate with such a humongous spoiler I oughta be able to go like a bat outta hell! Briefly pondered on a rearward sloping deck, but with that much lift I'd need to register my bus with the FAA...

Hat channels... I've read that term multiple times here, but haven't had any urgency to scout out the definition. It sounds like the resulting forehead crease after wearing a too tight cap for too long...

'hat channels' is the name given to the ribs of the bus - it you look at the profile of the ribs, it looks something like the shape of a hat -

5/8" t&g plywood meets the building code for houses

I'd also like to get rid of that sail of a 'forehead' and slope up right from the top of the windshield, both for aesthetics and what ever advantage it gets for fuel mileage

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Old 05-08-2019, 10:59 AM   #17
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LMAO Thanx, I wasn't fishin' for a definition, just used it as a lead in to a really bad pun (like there's any other kind..?)

Makes sense. Never occurred to me, since I wear broad-brimmed hats. Those look more like Derbys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
'hat channels' is the name given to the ribs of the bus - it you look at the profile of the ribs, it looks something like the shape of a hat -

5/8" t&g plywood meets the building code for houses

I'd also like to get rid of that sail of a 'forehead' and slope up right from the top of the windshield, both for aesthetics and what ever advantage it gets for fuel mileage

https://www.google.com/search?q=epdm...hrome&ie=UTF-8
T&G I used is prolly only decorative. White pine meant for wall and ceiling conceals.

Yup, I have the same Neanderthal brow on mine, too. Like to start at about grade in front, no more than about a 3" rise for the entire run.

I tip over too easily already!!!
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:50 AM   #18
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check out the video to see the rubber filament roofing - that stuff is great - l've had it on a trailer for years
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Old 05-08-2019, 11:54 AM   #19
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I will, thankya!
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check out the video to see the rubber filament roofing - that stuff is great - l've had it on a trailer for years
Weirder and weirder... The link wasn't there the last time I visited this thread. Go fig.

(I am in the boontoolies, with a single bar of 4G registering. Reckon I oughta be grateful for any kinda connectivity.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960 View Post
Appears to be 2X4 rails and 2X2 stringers (secured, or floating?) running lengthwise, yes? 2X6 or 2X8 planks? What did you use to block water thru the screw holes? Similarly, what welting is in between the hatch and interior? And where are those aforementioned slo-mo Peter Pan posts..?
2x2s are floating. Planks are 3/4" thick x 6" wide x 6' long. Bolt holes were slathered with sealant before and after insertion. Deck currently has 4 coats of spar urethane, but will get more. I used rubber weatherstripping sandwiched between the roof metal and the wood hatch frame, then covered the joins with liberal amounts of sealant (3 separate coats totaling about 3/8" thick). The 'slo-mo Peter Pan posts" will be installed when I add my awning storage box to the deck.

Quote:
I've envisioned my planks running lengthwise- fewer cuts and better prices/foot using long stock. Reckon it could be done using your ingenious method, tho it'd take a number of some fancy cuttings to accommodate the roof's curvature across.
I bought 12' planks (lower per foot cost) and cut them to 6'. Not sure what you mean by 'fancy cutting to accommodate" -- the 2x4 joists are 54" apart, which leaves the bottom of the deck boards about 1 3/8" above the roof metal.

Running lengthwise would require a lot of stringers.....my 240 pounds would deflect the planks more than I wanted on a 22" span, so my stringers are 18" on center.....they're suspended about 1/8" above the roof until stepped on.
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