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Old 02-13-2014, 07:55 PM   #1
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jasco Prep and Primer

So I went to my local hardware and construction store today and looked around for some 'rust convertor' products. Of which I found Jasco Prep and Primer, went ahead and purchased, still have the receipt just in case it turns out to be the wrong product for my specific job. That job: the rusty dusty floor that once laid underneath plywood, and which I uncovered just yesterday. The metal subflooring is in fairly good shape, one real holey area that will need some replacement metal and welding done. This Sunday I plan to sand it down, not too much mind you, brush away loose rust, and start the bonding process. So, before I start opening up this bottle of stuff, I went ahead and read some reviews of the Jasco product, seems like a good first step. Anyone actually ever use this product? What were your results like? Thanks everyone and good luck with your projects : )
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:40 PM   #2
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

I read almost every post that gets posted on this site. I have never heard or read anything about that product.

What was the price like?

If it's around the same price as Por 15, return it and buy the Por 15 unless you want to be the test subject at your expense.

Look up ospho rust stopper.

Hopefully others will chime in.

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Old 02-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #3
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

It was right around ten dollars, didn't find POR-15 at the store, may have to order it, Thanks.
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:52 PM   #4
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

The Jasco website says the Prep & Prime converts rust into iron phosphate so it's a phosphoric acid converter just like Ospho and many other brands of rust converter. Many here have used Ospho with good results and POR-15 is also popular. POR-15 is a one step finish where the phosphoric acid converter has to be topcoated with a good paint. Cost wise, the POR-15 is quite a bit more expensive than the acid but you're done in one step so maybe the extra cost is worthwhile to you. I'd be comfortable using either product.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:53 PM   #5
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

Ditto---but sometimes I hear people say things like "phospo this or phospo that make the bus stronger" They don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

once the steel has rusted away IT IS GONE!!!!!!!! Replace it!
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:21 PM   #6
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

As usual...Jack is correct --- The purpose of "rust converters" is only to stabilize mild surface oxidation to prevent further damage. Any thought of it contributing to strength is pure fantasy. I have cut away any metal that was rust damaged to the point it was no longer up to whatever task it was put there for and I'm still treating that which is oxidized but still solid. And I am treating all of the new metal I'm applying as well before any paint goes on. Much better than any conventional "primer".

I've been using a product called "Quest Restore" for years now on all the rebar frames I construct for my ferrocement sculptures. Ran tests on it for 5+ years using everything I could think of including just about daily doses of highly concentrated salt water trying to force it to rust and couldn't. It is Tannin based and is one of very few that is rated as a final finish. Nearly all of the other products I tested or am aware of are rated only as a primer and require a coat of paint to get any real benefit. That is why the really pricy stuff (you know the brand) is a two part process. This one has a polymer that rises to the surface and forms a very tough finish. But the most impressive thing I found was the bonding mechanism. Unlike paint or even hot-dip galvanizing, there really is no boundary layer between the materials. Because it is a reaction between the chemistry and the existing oxides present on the metal, it is more like alchemy in that the metal becomes the finish. And the benefit is that unlike any material that relies on a surface bond, rust will not migrate if the finish is damaged. On my test steel, I cut through the treated surface and into the rebar exposing the steel underneath. I used a file on several areas to do the same and the results surprised me. The steel would oxidize where the metal was exposed...but it would not creep out from there. Anyone who has ever left a small scratch on a car unattended is probably aware of how quickly rust will spread out around any such exposure. And it does so by creeping in between the paint and the metal. I'm no lab expert, but this process appears to eliminate that action. Pretty cool stuff and not really all that expensive. About $18 bucks a quart last time I bought a case. And no...I don't own any stock in the company. Artists don't make enough money to own stock in anything. I just put a lot of time & energy into developing techniques and processes that would make my artwork last for millennia instead of the usual 50 or so that most ferrocement is good for outdoors and wanted to share what I have found. In other words...just my dos centavos.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:41 PM   #7
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

Wow, that is extensive. Well, I returned the Jasco Prep and Primer today and I'm going to look into ordering the Quest Restorer and price it out, seems like the product with the best results. Thanks everyone!

And thankfully, the floor isn't rusted too bad, just one small spot that will need to be replaced due to a small hole.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:25 PM   #8
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Unlike paint or even hot-dip galvanizing, there really is no boundary layer between the materials. Because it is a reaction between the chemistry and the existing oxides present on the metal, it is more like alchemy in that the metal becomes the finish. And the benefit is that unlike any material that relies on a surface bond, rust will not migrate if the finish is damaged. On my test steel, I cut through the treated surface and into the rebar exposing the steel underneath. I used a file on several areas to do the same and the results surprised me. The steel would oxidize where the metal was exposed...but it would not creep out from there. Anyone who has ever left a small scratch on a car unattended is probably aware of how quickly rust will spread out around any such exposure. And it does so by creeping in between the paint and the metal.
This is realy good info.

Too bad no one has tested the "expensive other brand" por15 this way.

There is no surface bond at play, and I don't have any issues with hot dip galvanizing allowing migration of the boundary layer. I have put many scratches, ect in the body of both my buses that are hot dip galvanized. This is however a completely different chemical proses taking place, and should not have been used in the comparison. Hot dip galvanizing puts a sacrificial anode coating over the whole surface. As rust try's to start, it has to completely use up the galvanized coating in that spot before it can start attacking the steel underneath.

Nat
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #9
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

Well good news, looks like I buy 'quest' online, if only I had a use for 12 bottles of it : / any suggestions on where you can buy lower quantity? Thanks
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:22 AM   #10
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Re: jasco Prep and Primer

Have you tried mscdirect.com or mcmastercarr.com or Grainger yet?
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