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Old 10-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #21
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullwhacker
Water tanks? Hmmm...
Have you thought of using heavy wall PVC pipe? 6 to 8 to 12 in diameter?
You may be surprised at how much pipe you would need to get a decent capacity.

This is a good tank Calculator (I saved it to my desktop and it still works even when off line). For a round pipe use the "flat bottom" under tank type (think vertical rather than horizontal) and type in the "diameter" and "height" (for the pipe length).

JC Whitney has some decently priced Valterra tanks (ABS) that you can glue fittings into the sides, top, bottom. Plus they can be repaired fairly easily unlike poly tanks normally sold for RVs. We have bought two of these tanks (30 gallon will be the fresh tank in the bus...the 21 gallon is the fresh tank in the Class C). We like them. In the future, I plan on adding another 30 gallon tank (or two) in parallel with the 30 gallon tank we have now. I will also add corresponding ABS tanks to the grey tank we have (used 42 gallon poly tank from an RV) when I up the fresh water capacity. I'm not a big fan of poly tanks. Especially after we removed the Class C's poly fresh tank to repair it. It fell apart from age(?). The ABS tank was easy to install and install fittings.
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:04 PM   #22
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

4" pvc 10' long is 7 gallons, just in case your wondering
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Old 10-13-2011, 10:09 PM   #23
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Hey Ptooti --- you might look into a "jacknife" bed that folds into a sofa when not in use. With any Shorty you have to try and think "multifunction, collapsible, hide-a-way" or you run out of space really fast. Just a thought.
"Think submarine" was our moto buliding the bus.
Heres a bed idea. We have benches with storage underneath.
The silver bars you see in front are squares the swing out.
A piece of thick wall 1" sq. rests on top of the squares on the long span.
The wood over the bench has a 2nd piece hinged that folds down. We then set up a full sized air matress.
There is a apx. 8" from the edge of the bed to the wall -so if i had to get to the back i could-and a little room to get to the bathroom. I actually have 1 more piece now-another hinge has a 8" section that holds the air matress from "muffin topping' + hanging over the side. (picture the side of a waterbed.)
Set up time is maybe 5 minutes including blowing up the air matress.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:32 PM   #24
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

A cylinder 12" x 72" is only 4.7cf and will hold 35.2 US gallons. Still great for the price but nowhere near 70 or 80.

Volume of a cylinder = r squared x pi (3.14) = area x length.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:42 PM   #25
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Wow thanks for all the great info and pics you guys are a wealth of information! has anyone ever considered one of these propane tankless water heaters? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Marey-Portabl...ht_2710wt_1330 I was thinking of mounting one on the back of the bus outside somehow and use it to feed my hot water tap. And what are the laws for propane tank location in my old bus the tank had a vertical mount up high on the back of the bus just wondering if that is still allowed? I had just a 20lb tank before
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:10 AM   #26
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Tankless, on-demand propane water heaters are great. They use about 25-30% less energy and provide continuous hot water for as long as they have a supply of fuel.

However...be advised that there is currently only one unit on the market approved for use in RV's (Girard). All of the other makers have specific language (legaleese) stating that their products are not for RV use. Several make reference in their copy that they are "great for small cabins, RV's and marine applications", then turn right around and state otherwise in the small print. Can be very misleading if not illegal. Biggest considerations are whether they are for "indoor" or "outdoor" use due to CO2 buildup but the main concern is how the gas lines are configured and can handle vibration. Here again, read the fine print if you want to avoid a fiery situation that you will have no legal recourse on.

There are also electric, tankless water heaters available, but the only ones that provide an adequate temperature rise require 240 (and more) volts at high amperage and some even require 3-phase electric which makes them pretty useless on board an RV.

I will likely go with a small propane tankless myself, but will have to do still more homework before I decide which one. I would strongly suggest everyone else do the same if that's the route you choose to go as there are numerous, very real differences in the available brands and models.

Below is a good start. And keep in mind that anything less than about a 70-75 degree rise in water temps will severely limit when and where you will actually have "hot" water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_heating
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Old 10-15-2011, 01:25 PM   #27
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Need to correct the above..."PrecisionTemp" also makes a tankless water heater that is for use in RV's. Only catch is they run a cool Grand ($1000 bucks).
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:02 PM   #28
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
.., However...be advised that there is currently only one unit on the market approved for use in RV's (Girard). All of the other makers have specific language (legaleese) stating that their products are not for RV use. Several make reference in their copy that they are "great for small cabins, RV's and marine applications",
Way back when we were still on working on the Eagle conversion (trying to get rid of all the rust first), I corresponded with that folks who built the tankless water heater I was interested in (don't remember the make but it was a TN company). They told me that it cost too much money and time to get "approved" for such a tiny market (RV) and if they did get approved, they would then have to court the RV manufacturers to get their stuff into the RVs. That said, the Pres, VP, most of the engineers and a good pile of the workers loved RVing. And they had installed the tankless water heaters in their units (they pulled the RVs into the factory). I was told to make sure I vented the tankless outside. Then an engineer sent me diagrams on how he installed his tankless water heater in the bay of his RV. Included was a disclaimer that the company lawyer said had to be attached since they were not "approved" for installation in a mobile unit. He had to include it even though he sent the info via his private e-mail.

As for "approved" uses... The people on this forum are using former school buses in an "unapproved" manner. They are using many materials in an "unapproved" manner.

BTW, there are now TWO Tankless RV units. One predates Girard by many years. The RV-500 has been on the market for several years now.

ballpark $1K

http://www.gaswaterheaters.com/boats...V500/index.htm

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/..._p/vts-840.htm

http://www.globaltowne.com/product_i...products_id/53


A Thread on the Girard Tankless. You will want to read ALL of it. Most of the stuff applies to ANY tankless. We will install an Eccotemp LV12 ($293). We have the Eccotemp LV5 on the food cart (pumped with Shurflo 2088 40PSI 2.8 GPM pump... placed inside, vented out, burner kicks on only with full water flow... not what we want for "home" use). The LV12 is bigger and will be placed under our kitchen sink and vented outside. The inlet water and fresh tank will be directly under the kitchen are and in a heated box. Our water set up will always draw from the fresh holding tank. The fresh water will come in from the city water hookup, pass thru two filters and a water softener before entering the fresh tank thru a Dial Mfg. 4153 Float Valve. When the water level is down, the valve opens. When the tank is full, the float closes the valve. No more standing around waiting for the tank to fill and water pour out of the over flow. Since our filters knock the water flow down so much, this is our best solution. We also figure that when we are traveling, we will just pull into a campground every couple of days --- dump black/grey waste tanks, fill up the fresh water overnight. The softener will keep the mineral build up on the tankless water heater, etc to a minimum. Mineral build up is deadly to any water heater but seems to be worse for the tankless units.

A point to take into account is how you will use your bus. In many campgrounds, electric is metered or included in the site rent. Often AC is cheaper than LP. Boondocking/wallydocking means you rely on LP more but you may be limited in your water usage. Altitude may need to be factored in as well. The thread link above has some info on these points. No matter what type or brand of water heater you chose, I would suggest you read it. How you will use your bus and your water requirements can only be taken into account by you. Make sure you discuss water use with your mate/partner. This is not a good subject to have a misunderstanding.

We have an Atwood AC/LP 6 gallon water heater in our Class C. We bought the water heater in 2007 and have yet to operate it on LP. It works well, recovers fast on AC. By the time one person gets showered/hair shampooed (and conditioned/rinsed) the tank is running out of hot water. It does recover by the time I get dried/dressed. But David doesn't take as long or hot a shower as I do. So we allow a few extra minutes to heat back up when my daughter takes a shower after me (or I take one after her). It does take a bit of learning if you are a "long, hot, leisurely shower" type person. It costs quite a bit more than the LV-12 back then and the LV-12 is about half the price of a new Atwood today. I do love a long hot shower in the winter. Thus my fascination with the tankless water heaters. I love the idea that I could take a 2 hour shower.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:43 PM   #29
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

Excellent thread with a lot of useful info. One of the great things about this forum is the shared research & real world experience. Thanks to all who make it what it is.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:59 AM   #30
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Re: 1996 Ford 7.3L gas E350 Eldorado - Aerotech

I have shut down for the winter it's too cold here now to work on the bus anymore anyway I managed to get my wheel simulators on and they add some bling!
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