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Old 01-02-2018, 11:06 PM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Don't hang it to low man, I think you can fix it yourself. If you want to tow it to a junkyard then you might as well take a stab at it. If it still together the take the thermostat out so you have less pressure build and use some goop to slow down the leak. May be hang a bucket under it to catch some so you can pour it back in. Just drive off the lot to a spot where you can keep it for a week. Start taking it apart and see what you need or what can be salvaged.
You can do it. There are people here who did overhauls, i am sure you can get plenty of help. Brokedown has it right, it is doable. There are plenty of 466 around. Take the front of and see how bad it is. Have a buddy welder build the aluminum back up on the rear cover and front cover and put it back together.
I know it is a pain but you go to hang there man.

Later J
I've asked around on here and haven't found anyone yet who's touched the timing cover on one of these. There's virtually NO real info on it out there at all. I've been scouring the internet looking for anyone with any info on this and I've only found a few conversations on truck and tractor forums.
Most said they ended up spending a ton of money at dealers in the end.

If anyone has any actual, firsthand info on this by all means PLEASE chime in. I'd LOVE to have some actual info on this thing. Or if anyone has a shop manual for this that would also be a HUGE help.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:24 AM   #782
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I've got $100 an hour and a plane ticket for ANYONE capable of fixing my bus...
anyone want two grand for a twenty hour job??
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:51 AM   #783
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EC - we dont even know if the rear timing cover is bad... the dealer SAYS it needs replaced because most likely they pulled up the TSI that says you install an updated front cover when there is a leak .. so they have to follow the TSI that International says they have to. which says you put on the updated timing cover.. they are a dealer thats how dealers work.. not by their own doing but by becoming an authorized dealer of the navistar product they must follow navistar's rules... from everything ive read the rear part of the timing cover doesnt get damaged from this issue.. it gets damaged by gear issues if a CAM beasring goes out...

the rear is replaced cimply because the updated front part only fits on the newer rear..

when I did RedByrd's transmission I put an ad out on CL - "help I need labor help to help me lift and put in a transmission for a school bus".. i had quite a few responses. with pretty decent pricing.. surprisingly from people that are actual mechanics.. I ended uo not using anyone because the schedule got screwy.. so I did it myself..

the idea here is that you dont need to make it PERFECT. you just need to make it run.. maybe just enough to sell it.. or drive it to see how it acts..

you are resourceful.. and if i can tear the front end off of a bus for a week in an HOA that says "no car repairs" im guessing you can tear yours apart in your area.. esp if you can slide the bonnet back on each night.. you MH title it, you tag it, you hoist the bonnet on before you close up shop each day.. parked it INWARD. so the back is out.. its not likely gonna cause any issues.. even in your crazy town..

if you tear it apart and find that its too bad to fix then a scrapper is likely to send their own tow rig after it... but i have a feeling you get it going is what happens...


on another note - what batteries did you buy from Rural King? my Redbyrd went Tan go-Uniform at minus 7 this AM. I only got 3 shots at 8 seconds each of cranking before the batteries were done...

-Christopher
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:06 AM   #784
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I just buy the $75 house brand RK batteries. I've not found them on RK's site, but they're in their stores.
I also have liners that may be leaking.
The whitish, misty smoke that comes out of the blowby tube and its telltale sweet smell don't instill any confidence in this turd of an engine.
If I were to spend time and money on this only to need an inframe I'd likely end up having a actual nervous breakdown. Which I may be close to anyhow!

I'm appalled that International would have "block sealant" as their "fix".
Everyone hates on Cat, when in reality I'll bet Navistar is actually costlier. Two thousand dollars just for the inner and outer covers?? that's insane!!!
For every part I've looked up for this engine, I've been comparing the prices of a Cat 3126 and I don't think a Cat would be as expensive to fix as this IC.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:45 AM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
EC - we don't even know if the rear timing cover is bad... the dealer SAYS it needs replaced because most likely they pulled up the TSI that says you install an updated front cover when there is a leak .. so they have to follow the TSI that International says they have to. which says you put on the updated timing cover.. they are a dealer that's how dealers work.. not by their own doing but by becoming an authorized dealer of the Navistar product they must follow Navistar's rules... from everything I've read the rear part of the timing cover doesn't get damaged from this issue.. it gets damaged by gear issues if a CAM bearing goes out...

the rear is replaced simply because the updated front part only fits on the newer rear..

when I did RedByrd's transmission I put an ad out on CL - "help I need labor help to help me lift and put in a transmission for a school bus".. i had quite a few responses. with pretty decent pricing.. surprisingly from people that are actual mechanics.. I ended up not using anyone because the schedule got screwy.. so I did it myself..

the idea here is that you don't need to make it PERFECT. you just need to make it run.. maybe just enough to sell it.. or drive it to see how it acts..

you are resourceful.. and if i can tear the front end off of a bus for a week in an HOA that says "no car repairs" im guessing you can tear yours apart in your area.. esp if you can slide the bonnet back on each night.. you MH title it, you tag it, you hoist the bonnet on before you close up shop each day.. parked it INWARD. so the back is out.. its not likely gonna cause any issues.. even in your crazy town..

if you tear it apart and find that its too bad to fix then a scrapper is likely to send their own tow rig after it... but i have a feeling you get it going is what happens...


on another note - what batteries did you buy from Rural King? my Redbyrd went Tan go-Uniform at minus 7 this AM. I only got 3 shots at 8 seconds each of cranking before the batteries were done...

-Christopher
Charlie,
Mostly what Chris said. The shop is giving you the worst case. Think about it. Who wants a $2000 quote and then goes to pick up their vehicle to find out **** broke, it was worse than expected and now you owe $8000? Navistar and dealers aside, they can't legally do that. If you request a written estimate, the bill can be no more than $50 the quote. You aren't going to complain if I give you a quote for $2000 and then tell you it was only $500 after all.

Don't take this as criticism but something I've noticed is when you get bad news, you go straight to depressed and dumping it all. Yes, it's damn depressing and I HATE dumping good money after bad into something. But in my case, I'm also lazy. I'll let it sit for months before doing something.

Anywho, the point is, it doesn't cost more to have the bus towed for scrap in buckets than it does all assembled. Get the bus somewhere it can sit awhile even if you have to rent a U-Store-It spot. If you are truly going to scrap it, drive it to the junk yard. Save the tow bill. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE RASH MOVE.

You are a resourceful guy. Are any of your lawn clients businesses? Big properties? I'd let you park your bus in a corner spot for a month or two's free service. Barter, then you're not out cash reserves.

Once the bus is happily parked, get that front cover off and give it a look-see. Someone made that piece probably from a solid block of AL. If it was done once, it can be done again. Sure it would be easier with drawings and 10,000 pieces but what would a one off cost? That's worst case in repairing. I'm willing to bet that someone that can spell TIG and knows the hot end from the cold can rebuild what you have. Any machine shop that grinds and polishes heads can do it.

Short story long, get your head right before making any major decisions on this. Don't let a $300 tow bill make you throw away a $4,000 bus.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:45 AM   #786
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the issue is that the dealer is expensive for anything and everything navistar or Cat or cummins..

if you have a cummins 5.9 or a T-444E then you get a break because there is a ton of aftermarket parts support so you can buy parts anywhere.. cummins still makes the 5.9 and you can still order a 7.3 from ford as a replacement.

buying brand new dealer parts is always going to be very costly.. thats why there is such a huge amount of used parts pulled off of all MD and HD engines.. and the likes of truckpartsinventory, vanderhaags etc make their living on it.. chances you are right the sealant wont fix the geyser at the timing cover, but might at the liners.. and yeah a dealer inframe of that engine is very expensive.. its a dealer.. you yourself tell us all that every-day that dealers suck and are only out for a buck..

as for the sealant. cadillac required it in their Lined engines. (the HT-4100,4500,4900) were all wet-liner aluminum engines.. GM required it from brand new..

I dont know much about the DT-466E other than what ive read about it.. and what ive learned from my DT-360, but one thing I do know is that if I was backed into a corner I myself would probably start tearing stuff apart.. when I was 20 and had that old Peugeot diesel. that i loved so much, it was either jiunk it or try and fix it.. I didnt know the first thing about building an engine.. it was 1989 i didnt have google.. so I went to the library and started reading. and started taking stuff apart.. i broke a head bolt off in the block and said 'F' it.. one of the FEW positive things my father did for me was say "you can do it.. you drill a hole in the bolt and you heat it and you oil it and then you tap the hole".. I had no idea what he said but I took the head to a shop to have the valves worked.. because i knew if the head was being re-conditioned that id be encourasged to fix the car.. i asked the counter guy.. "hey how hard is it to drill out a head bolt in the block? do I need that bolt? can I run without it?".. he laughed , handed me a small black box of tools and saids "here ya go, this will help you. oh and dont re-use any of the old bolts.. i'll order ya new ones".. I drilled out the bolt, re-tapped the hole and moved on..

you go from "I hate this ******* thing".. to "well what can it hurt.. if I dont take it apart I have ZERO chance" to "wow I made it past the bad bolt. I can do this"....

did the dealer guy tell you how he knows the cover is bad? what if the damn rubber gasket just wore out on the timing cover and the cover is fine? does he see a corroded-ouit notch in it to say "yes its bad".. or is it just spraying water everywhere and the book says "if this then that"...

make the dealer tell you how they know this stuff is busted.. not just "the book says it is so it must be"...
-Christopher
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:00 AM   #787
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Chris, you HAD a peugeot diesel. Man that is cool stuff. Good on you that you kept it running. I have an old Citroen DS (gas)and a several jeep 2.1 diesels. Those cars are adventures by themselves.

Charlie , this is all very good advise. We all drive old stuff , anything can break by the time we are getting it. The rest of that bus is what you wanted and got. I am sure you are somewhere in a bind that you even asked a dealer to look at it but you already knew that the dealer and the stealer are pretty close. These parts are all over e-bay and not that expensive and as said before a TIG welder can take care of this stuff in no time.

Good luck man.
Later J
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:30 AM   #788
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This boy has some skills. Ending is best part.


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Old 01-03-2018, 08:42 AM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Chris, you HAD a peugeot diesel. Man that is cool stuff. Good on you that you kept it running. I have an old Citroen DS (gas)and a several jeep 2.1 diesels. Those cars are adventures by themselves.

Charlie , this is all very good advise. We all drive old stuff , anything can break by the time we are getting it. The rest of that bus is what you wanted and got. I am sure you are somewhere in a bind that you even asked a dealer to look at it but you already knew that the dealer and the stealer are pretty close. These parts are all over e-bay and not that expensive and as said before a TIG welder can take care of this stuff in no time.

Good luck man.
Later J

yeah I had a 1980 Peugeot 505 SD, it was a 4 cylinder non-turbo diesel with the Bosch fuel injection system.. similar to V-dub rabbits., it was spring and i started losing coolant slowly but couldnt tell where it went.. so i just kept driving it adding coolant when it got low.. then it started smoking and i started getting wierd noises and it was misfiring on a cylinder.. my dad said i probably blew the head gasket.. when I took it apart it ended up that the coolant leak into the cylinder had steamed a piston and broke a compression ring.. so I 'Inframed' it.. sort of... took all the pistons out Honed the cylinders put new rings and bearings on all the rods and mains and had the head worked.. replaced the one bad piston. obviously it wasnt the right thing to do (I shouldve had the block worked).. I put it back together and it miraculously ran pretty darn good and didnt use oil... that car ran for a long time after that..
-Christopher
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:24 AM   #790
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I got an email back from them. These guys are a total scam. the parts prices are higher than retail. I've got a part on a ticket with my name that I had them set aside for me before i took the bus down there.
They told me the front cover was 900 something plus tax, now they're wanting like 1200 for it. So I've asked them about that and waiting.
I'm not expecting to actually accomplish anything by this, I'm just trying to buy time "negotiating" so that I can arrange to get the bus out of there.

I can actually buy a reman engine for what they want to replace this cover.
Problem there is, how the hell do I pull this one out? I don't have access to a forklift or a crane.
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