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Old 06-19-2021, 05:00 PM   #481
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3.54 and 10R tires.. there must just be a boat load of slip in that AT545.. its easy to get that 466E up to 230HP I think its 630 tq? I dont have the chart in front of me. but you'll for sure waste the tranny in no time if we did that. maybe its time for a 13 speed eaton

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Old 08-20-2021, 05:17 PM   #482
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Hello again!
This may not be the right place for this, and I know I saw a write-up about this somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

So, I managed to get my hands on a 643 from LKQ, and am trying to cover all the bases before I get started. What do I need?

1. My understanding is that I remove the AT545 adapter housing from the DT466 and the MT643 mounts right up. No adapter or spacers needed, correct?

2. I also think I read that the existing flexplate on the DT466, used with the AT545, will also work with the MT 643?

3. The cooler lines need adapters at the transmission end. I think I read that someone found them at Grainger, but I don't remember what they're called or what size.

4. There was also something about flywheel bolts being too long? I don't remember.

5. The yoke, sensors, dipstick tube, and modulator should all carry over, correct?

6. Need to shorten the drive shaft.

7. Just picked up a bucket of Transynd today.

What am I missing?
Thank you!
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Old 08-20-2021, 07:55 PM   #483
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I did an AT545 to MT643 swap i think in my Dev Random swap. mine is a Pre NGD engine.. yours is an NGD so things may be different.


1 - I removed the 2-3 ring and the extended hub spacer
2 - I purchased a new flex-plate which bolted directly to my flywheel
3 - I purchased shorter flywheel to crank bolts (and blue loctite)
4 - id have to look again but I think my cooler line adapters were #12 ORB from the trans adapted to #8 JIC for the trans cooler lines.

5 - correct - modulator, yoke, shift linkage, pressure sensor for Reverse lights, Neutral safety switch, speed sensor all moved over.. my MT643 has a tone wheel and not a speedo gear.. if the one you bought has a gear then you'll need to swap the tone wheel over (can be a PITA). most likely you'll have a tone wheel.



6 - driveshaft needed shortened.

7 - I may still bump my 3-4 shift up a bit.. it kicks at 2400 RPM which for a 360 is too low.. might be perfect for a 466
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Old 09-08-2021, 02:34 PM   #484
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Finally getting into it, and confirmed that my existing flexplate does not fit the 643.

Does anyone have any insight on sourcing this item. My initial searches are falling flat.

I see lots of 2000 series flexplates for dt466e's, which are also 6 hole. What are the odds of some cross-compatibility?
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:01 PM   #485
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See this thread:


https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/t...tml#post449872


That links to a Cummins flywheel, but I bet you might find the one for your motor.
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Old 09-08-2021, 03:53 PM   #486
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Based off Engine?

When I sourced a new flywheel for my swap, it paired based on engine and not transmission. I bought a new one cause the old flywheel had several teeth missed or damaged.

So AT545 or A2000 didn't matter. You could verify with International most likely.
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:11 PM   #487
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the flexplate for a 643 is different from a standard 2100 / 2500 like used on school busses.. the bolt pattern for the 643 is larger.. 643 was sold on the DT466E all the way till it was retired in 2003 so they are out there.. the DT466E is the same as a DT466 NGD mechanical when it comes to flexplates and crankshaft pieces. . (12 bolt)..





https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailvi...?part=24681479
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Old 09-08-2021, 04:46 PM   #488
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Thank you for the direction mountain gnome, but agkits didn't have it. Found lots of old links to used ones that were no longer available, like the link cadillac posted.

And Cadillac is, of course, correct about them being different. The holes on the flexplate for the 643 are about 1/2" or so farther from center than the 545 plate.

I was hoping for used, but in the interest of time and a reman trans, I forked over for a new one from Navistar Chicago. (for just over twice the price lol)
Should be here in a couple days.

NOW the question is this:
The 545 setup had a significant spacer between the flywheel and flexplate...

Am I correct in assuming that I just remove that and bolt the new flexplate directly to the flywheel, or is there a different spacer I need to find?
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Old 09-08-2021, 05:14 PM   #489
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when I did my 545 to 643 conversion I removed the spacer and also the SAE2 to 3 ring on the flywheel housing and my converter offfset matched perfect.. you can test for offset when you set things up. you want the converter seated in the tranny pump well and only pull it out 1/8 to 3/16 inch max.. otherwise you need to add some shimming washers on the studs.. when you bolt in the trans you make sure converter is pushed all the way in and then you measure how much you pull it out till it is seated at the flexplate.. you only shim it as little as possible as you want to make sure the pilot makes the crank hub.
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Old 09-30-2021, 09:37 AM   #490
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Sooooo, does anyone happen to know if the trans fluid goes through the external filter on the way to the cooler, or on the way back?
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Old 09-30-2021, 03:09 PM   #491
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Also, at nearly twice the weight of the 545, how does everyone feel about just letting this thing hang off the bell housing? :/
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Old 09-30-2021, 03:45 PM   #492
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Depends on what the original engine called for. On my DTA360 it didn’t call for a secondary mount to go to the 643, not sure but I thought the Cummins 5.9 and the IH V8 diesels use secondary mount but that’s something to look in the factory service manual for. I’m guessing your 466E doesn’t need one since it’s real similar to my 360 and mechanical 466 in terms of housing and flywheel
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Old 09-30-2021, 05:34 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAudioGuy View Post
Sooooo, does anyone happen to know if the trans fluid goes through the external filter on the way to the cooler, or on the way back?
tranny -> cooler(s) -> external filter -> tranny


Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Depends on what the original engine called for. On my DTA360 it didn’t call for a secondary mount to go to the 643, not sure but I thought the Cummins 5.9 and the IH V8 diesels use secondary mount but that’s something to look in the factory service manual for. I’m guessing your 466E doesn’t need one since it’s real similar to my 360 and mechanical 466 in terms of housing and flywheel
There is no rear tranny mount on my Cummins 5.9L. The rear motor mounts are integral with the torque converter housing, and there is a front motor mount under the front crankshaft pulley.
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:27 PM   #494
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Gnome - i was thinking you have a 545, the MT643 is double the weight. I’ve only seen gasoline engines using secondary mounts on 545s as gas engines typically use the trans as their rear mount even in a car. But on 643 some require it not to just hang by the bell
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:26 AM   #495
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Thank you so much for the info and direction.

Another thing I was wondering since it's so heavy...
Is the oil pan of the 643 designed to support the weight of the trans while installing, or do I need to support it by the pan mounting flange some how?

This project would be so much more difficult without this forum.
Thanks again,
Jason
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Old 10-04-2021, 03:54 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAudioGuy View Post
Thank you so much for the info and direction.

Another thing I was wondering since it's so heavy...
Is the oil pan of the 643 designed to support the weight of the trans while installing, or do I need to support it by the pan mounting flange some how?

This project would be so much more difficult without this forum.
Thanks again,
Jason
I would think it would be strong enough.


Just put a piece of thin plywood under the pan, so you don't put all the weight on one spot/line/edge if it gets angled. Still, I don't think you would do more than a small dimple in the pan even without the plywood, and only if you were not careful and bumped it or set it on a protruding bolt-head. Unless you drop it.
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:42 PM   #497
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Quote:
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Also, at nearly twice the weight of the 545, how does everyone feel about just letting this thing hang off the bell housing? :/
For most vehicles the unsupported mounting style the 643 uses there isn't much in the way issues.

Now if your towing heavy with an 8.3. There can be case breaking issues on the 643. I used to work at a place and drove a 8.3 yard truck with a 643 in it. This was a single axle tractor. It towed semi trailers with empty weights of around 15K. A loaded trailer was around 44K. On that tractor about 3 years is all a 643 could handle then the case would break. On the other side of that coin. We had three 12 valve cummins powered trucks with 643's. We never lost a trans on any of them.

Another thing to look at is Ally spec's for the trans. The torque rating is what to look at. On that 8.3 truck it was detuned to 180HP. The 12 valve trucks were rated for 180HP also. The 8.3 put out twice the torque rating of the 12 valves. The 8.3 was at the top of the torque rating for the trans. Heavy loads high torque 643's don't like.

BTW the 8.3 was a CAPS pump 24 valve engine. The 12 valves were piss-pumped.
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Old 10-12-2021, 07:32 PM   #498
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Interesting on fracturing of the trans case. I figured the bigger issue would be stress on the motor mounts. Esp from mount which has the up force on it.. the bigger engines like the DT and 8.3 are heavy enough that the trans probably doesn’t even try to lift the engine but tjhe V8s are mounted a little different. Maybe that’s why I’ve seen the secondary mounts on those. Which are still up front on the trans. I’ve never seen a cross member under any medium duty conventional trans.

So far so good with my DT360 and 643, no issues at all.

The allison 1000 that’s in RedByrd isn’t much heavier than a 545. Less than 75 lbs more total.

On the gasoline engines even the AT540 uses a secondary mount.
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Old 10-13-2021, 07:42 AM   #499
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For 99% of usage the SAE mounting system you will not see issues. Its a proven design. I wouldn't worry about trying redesigning it.

High HP, large engine and driving like the village idiot can cause problems.

Let me explain a little. That company i worked at had 4 Drivers for the yard truck. Me and one other were good drivers. The other two were village idiots. The village never sent a letter to the company wanting them back. The company was located in the village so they still had them during working hours.

I would be a little concerned with a ambulance with a 8.3 and 643. A lot of ambulances came with 300 to 350 HP 8.3's. A heavy foot on that engine/chassis might cause trans issues.

For a medium bus. They never had that HP rating installed.

Just keep an eye on the SAE bell mounts. Most engines use a front horse shoe style front mount. I have seen the rubber biskets flatten out and fall apart on both mounts.
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Old 01-15-2022, 10:10 PM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
so running stand alone and letting the transmission Learn is the best way to go.

on a fully mechanical engine, you replace the modulator cable from the old AT545 / MT643 with a cable connected to a box that will read the accelerator pedal position back to the transmission.

-Christopher
Not sure this is the best way to bring up older issues you faced way back in 2017, but I'm just late to the party. Your comment above brings up more need for me to go through your pics not only concerning your routing of your shifter cable, but also the routing of the cable that replaces the old 545 modulator cable. Any updated pics would help. I'll keep working my way through your thread looking for the applicable pics, but if you have good enough weather and a few minutes to shoot any pics that would point me to a "bigger picture" from a distance showing more of the routing instead of close ups, that might help. Thanks for any help, Bruce
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