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Old 01-16-2022, 06:54 AM   #501
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
on the red bus, the modulator was electric so it didnt have the cable.



which threottle box did you buy? or did your trans come off of a vehicle that was newer and used a computer-connect to the engine?


ultimately on a mechanical engine what you need to achieve is to be able to "tell" the transmission how far down on the pedal your foot is. on an AT545 / MT643 this is achieved by a valve in the side of the transmission. a cable connected to your pedal or injector pump throttle level actuates the valve in the transmission..



on the allison 1000/2000/3000 this is done by the computer.. some TCMs have throttle type 'Auto' or J1939 and those are designed to see computer data that tells it '50%', '100%' etc..



CAC conversions makes a box that you can connect to throttle linkage (either your pedal or pump). which has a cable that pulls out and pushes in. thaty box translates it into electronic form that the allison TCM recognizes. its up to you to build a lever arm or find a mounting spot on the existing pump throttle lever or throttle pedal in the bus to create the correct geometry. meaning when floored that cable is puilled out 100% and when off the pedal it is 0%.



https://www.caconversions.com/cac-th...osition-sensor


in the case of this (redbyrd) bus I didnt need the mecahnical box as mny throttle is electronic and so is the engine.. so eventually I was able to connect the existing computer control to my allison TCM and read the throttle from the data.



the other bus I went from emchanical AT545 to Mechanical MT643 so it was simply re-use the existing stuff.. that cable set up is still actuating a mechanical valve.



too bad we arent closer where we could just get together and brainstorm this out.

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Old 06-05-2022, 09:55 AM   #502
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 136
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird?
Chassis: 26ft Bluebird TC2000
Engine: Cumming 5.9 12v, AT545
Hello Chris! I just bought a 26ft transit style 91 Bluebirb with an all mech 6bt and a 545, and I'm very interested in swapping that out for a Allison 2400 with the nice low 1st gear and double OD. I intend to use it for both lightly loaded camping, once or twice a year 1000 mile round trips pulling 10-15k trailers, and the 6 speed seems just the ticket. Mind taking a look at my thread, and maybe pointing me towards where to get the software and adapters needed to talk to the TCU, how to source a programmable TCU like yours, and maybe privately give me a hint as to what your CAC beefed up gearbox cost in 2017 dollars?

Thread here, PMs welcome:

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f33/6...ade-39495.html

Thanks!!
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Old 06-05-2022, 11:08 AM   #503
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: topeka kansas
Posts: 1,764
Year: 1954
Coachwork: wayne
Chassis: old f500- new 2005 f-450
Engine: cummins 12 valve
Rated Cap: 20? five rows of 4?
Dalez

C’mon, read the thread and you will find almost all the answers. The 1000/2000 series before 2007 - I am pretty sure are five speeds. After could be programmed for six..

Transmissiontuner.com

William
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Old 06-05-2022, 11:24 AM   #504
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 136
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird?
Chassis: 26ft Bluebird TC2000
Engine: Cumming 5.9 12v, AT545
Read the thread, will reread and take notes I guess

Will be looking for a 2008+ 6 speed, I got the right axle ratio to use the full range, as long as the 4th gen programmable TCU works with those newer ones and only needs a cable operated throttle box...
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Old 06-05-2022, 12:27 PM   #505
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalez View Post
Read the thread, will reread and take notes I guess

Will be looking for a 2008+ 6 speed, I got the right axle ratio to use the full range, as long as the 4th gen programmable TCU works with those newer ones and only needs a cable operated throttle box...



jason at transmissiontuner dot com is where you can get a programmable TCM.. he also sells a cable operated throttle box and he can make you a wiring harness for your chosen transmission..





you will want to source a late 06 to 2009 transmisison.. in 2010 some changes were made. (I think it was 2010) ...


you can ask jason but i believe his setup is designed for the 06-09. my transmission was built off of 09 Specs.. i have run it with both an A41 and A51 TCM.. Odd numbers like this are Medium Duty TCMs. that most often sport "auto" throttle or "J1939" mode.



your 2400.. most 2400s that ive seen where put into heavier trucks and were therefore SAE2 Bells.. you are going to want to find one that has an SAE3 bell and appropriate tailshaft. if your bus is hydraulic brakje you will need to modify you existing parking brake, find a donor on a 2000 series bus, or buy a new park brake assembly and cable bracket.. not applicable to air brakes..



if you have never Tuned an engine or transmission then I would consider paying jason to do your tunes.. if you screw up a trans tune you can cause a Bind up of 2 drums and scatter parts on the freeway... its actually not super easy to do but just saying EFI live is capable of making carnage..



ive done this sort of thing for quite a few years so I took it easy and only did small changes at a time.. last I checked I have over 240 revisions of calibration files ive made for my allison.. i am set up where i can make a change on the fly.. more than once ive been driving and thought.. "damn I wish 6th gear wouldnt come on so easily.. it it needs to come on later".. next rest area I make a change (using one of my digital dash tablets).. save it program it. and off i go..



im not sure where to source a 2400 that is built up or custom.. 1000s are easy.. CAC does it all the time.. (in fact they specialize in mounting allison 1000s to cummins 5.9s).. they are a class-act company. I wanted a progrannable TCM which they didnt have so I got one from jason.. but CAC could sell you a system that you could walk out the door with and install..



my trans came from there and so did my harness. (and also one of my TCMs).. I have had ZERO issues with the wiring or the transmission. I just go... so if you want a one stop shop they can set you up.. their TAP-Shift product is mature now too.. when I was getting started it was not yet out.. Tap shift allows you to manually select any gear like the MD3060 guys do..



you can ask them about a 2400. or possibly a wide ratio planet set can be put into a 1000.


I dont discuss pricing typically as oftentimes vendors cut me deals in exchange that I give them detailed feedback and suggestions on the products and help them to improve.. I dont want to push out pricing that is or was not General..
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Old 06-05-2022, 01:23 PM   #506
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 136
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird?
Chassis: 26ft Bluebird TC2000
Engine: Cumming 5.9 12v, AT545
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
jason at transmissiontuner dot com is where you can get a programmable TCM.. he also sells a cable operated throttle box and he can make you a wiring harness for your chosen transmission..
Sweet! I just read over his website, looks like he can do exactly what I want if I go with a stock unit on a budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
you will want to source a late 06 to 2009 transmisison.. in 2010 some changes were made. (I think it was 2010) ...
Some more reading on my part seems to confirm that as well, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
you can ask jason but i believe his setup is designed for the 06-09. my transmission was built off of 09 Specs.. i have run it with both an A41 and A51 TCM.. Odd numbers like this are Medium Duty TCMs. that most often sport "auto" throttle or "J1939" mode.
I would guess I dont need that for a mechanical engine? I'll confirm with Jason or CAC, whichever I go with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
your 2400.. most 2400s that ive seen where put into heavier trucks and were therefore SAE2 Bells.. you are going to want to find one that has an SAE3 bell and appropriate tailshaft. if your bus is hydraulic brakje you will need to modify you existing parking brake, find a donor on a 2000 series bus, or buy a new park brake assembly and cable bracket.. not applicable to air brakes..
I have air brakes and no shaft brake. I'm already finding a few 2400's with SAE3 housings, although none 2006-2009 yet. I'm gathering that other than shortening the driveshaft and dealing with the shifter linkage, mechanically that would be pretty much bolt in without anything else, and electrically just needs Jason's TCU and a TPS hooked up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
if you have never Tuned an engine or transmission then I would consider paying jason to do your tunes.. if you screw up a trans tune you can cause a Bind up of 2 drums and scatter parts on the freeway... its actually not super easy to do but just saying EFI live is capable of making carnage..


ive done this sort of thing for quite a few years so I took it easy and only did small changes at a time.. last I checked I have over 240 revisions of calibration files ive made for my allison.. i am set up where i can make a change on the fly.. more than once ive been driving and thought.. "damn I wish 6th gear wouldnt come on so easily.. it it needs to come on later".. next rest area I make a change (using one of my digital dash tablets).. save it program it. and off i go..
I havent actually done an engine or transmission tune before. I've read a bit about it, it APPEARS like stuff I could learn. I'm not scared of electronics and configuring equipment, as I work in IT on hardware and have tinkered with electronics my whole life. Mechanically, I can do most work myself. Fabricating, not so much. So mechanically bolt on is very appealing, and being able to tweak the settings as I see fit is also very appealing. But if Jason gets it "close enough" I'd probably be fine with that, and definitely want his tune as a starting point for said tweaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
im not sure where to source a 2400 that is built up or custom.. 1000s are easy.. CAC does it all the time.. (in fact they specialize in mounting allison 1000s to cummins 5.9s).. they are a class-act company. I wanted a progrannable TCM which they didnt have so I got one from jason.. but CAC could sell you a system that you could walk out the door with and install..

my trans came from there and so did my harness. (and also one of my TCMs).. I have had ZERO issues with the wiring or the transmission. I just go... so if you want a one stop shop they can set you up.. their TAP-Shift product is mature now too.. when I was getting started it was not yet out.. Tap shift allows you to manually select any gear like the MD3060 guys do..

you can ask them about a 2400. or possibly a wide ratio planet set can be put into a 1000.
TAP shift does sound very appealing, although not absolutely required... Any gearbox that can give me a nice low to start the rig w/ trailer rolling and a nice overdrive sounds nice, as long as it can handle the load. I WOULD like to crank up the power on the 6bt, but probably not DRASTICALLY. I cant imagine going past 250hp. Just eyeballing the 6bt's specs... Im guessing if I turn up the power that far it would over-torque a stock 2400. But if it's gonna cost me thousands extra for the beefed transmission to take that vs a more budget route I'm probably just going to deal with only going as far as that gearbox can safely take me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I dont discuss pricing typically as oftentimes vendors cut me deals in exchange that I give them detailed feedback and suggestions on the products and help them to improve.. I dont want to push out pricing that is or was not General..
Totally understood. Thanks for your help and for documenting all this!!!!
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Old 06-05-2022, 01:51 PM   #507
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,707
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
you DO need a throttle box (TPS with a mechanical linkage) for a mechanical engine. . on an electronic engine like a 24 Valve 5.9 there is a data link (J1939) that tells the trans the TPS (fott position)..



on a TCM with throttle type set to Auto, it can operate as a J1939 type throttle or as an analog input (resistance).


the throttle box I got from CAC converts mechanical Throttle position into J1939 data, I believe Jason's TPS box turns the TPS position into a mechanical output (resistance)..



I didnt end up using the device i got from CAC as I figured out how to make the datalink on my electronic engine work.. and the TCM i got from jason is J1939..


you can learn tuning a trans.. but need to learn how a trans works internally to do it right. and not have issues like flares or slaps or Hunting...



Jason's Base tune will probably get you a good ways there out of the box.. he has done school busses before and most medium duty diesel engines have a similar RPM range and output curve..



you'll have to tell him what your max RPM is.. or at least the Max RPM that you want the trans to shift..



in my case my engine governer is set to 3000 but I shift at 100% throttle at 2800..



you dont want your TCM set to shift at 2800 abd find your engine only goes to 2500..
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