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Old 03-11-2015, 02:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
Car alternators use a wound rotar in which the limiting factor is cooling so the output is limited so they don't overheat and they are actually too small for their rated output because car engineers realize that they are going to run 95% of the time at less than half their rating so they save weight by making it smaller. If you look at a semi truck alternator of the same rating, it will be 4 times the size because it runs at about 90 % of its rated capacity when the trucks lights are on so get a good honda generator and a good 13.6 volt inverter/power supply for a motor home, my bluebird wanderlodge has a 76 amp inverter for 12 volt power, it also charges the batteries when it operates
That may be but it is an easy and cheap(easy and cheap are very important to me) way to charge batteries.
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Old 03-11-2015, 02:31 PM   #22
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I like where this thread is going.

A small diesel powered Air conditioning system would be a god send for many off grid skoolies.

Nat
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:13 PM   #23
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Cost effectiveness

Let't talk about cost effectiveness.

I believe that cost effectiveness must be a key factor in most projects (unless it is an educational or fun project).

You can build great powerful battery charger almost for free or almost for free.

You will need:
1. Small (4-5 HP) engine. It can be a lawn mower engine, or ex pressure washer, or ex generator engine. You can find one for $ 50 or even find it for free(just dig dipper in your garage ).

2. Car alternator. Again you can find one for $20 or for free....

3. A bunch of 2x4, some plywood, couple angle iron pieces, some foam, etc

4. One weekend of fun and you have your charger...

Now let's see how you are going to use it:

1. You use it occasionally for a few hours over weekend.

2. You use it 8-10 hours a day every day.

#1 is a great use and there is no point to spend hundreds of dollars to get more efficient unit

#2 is a financial disaster.

Here is a fuel consumption number for a small yanmar diesel engine L70

L70 takes 270 gram of fuel per KW/H.

You use 50% efficient (yes this car alternators is a waste of energy) car alternator.

1. 50% efficiency: 12Vx100amp=1200 Watt. But you use 1200 Watt x 100/50 =2400 Watt from engine.

2. 70% efficiency: 12Vx100amp=1200 Watt. But you use 1200 Watt x 100/70 =1700 Watt from engine.

1. 50% efficiency 2.4 Kw x 270 gram x 10 hours = about 6.5 litres

1. 70% efficiency 1.7 Kw x 270 gram x 10 hours = about 4.5 litres

So, you are going to pay for extra 2 litres of fuel every day you use it.

Now I took efficient Yanmar diesel engine and 2 different alternators.

If you compare gas lawnmower engine with 50% efficient alternator to Yanmar diesel engine with 70% efficient PMA (permanent magnet alternator) you will be surprised how much more cheap or even free unit will cost you on fuel.

My guess top number is going to be 10-12 litres of gas instead of 4.5 litres of diesel

This is very rough comparison but gives me idea what way to go.
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Old 03-11-2015, 04:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
I like where this thread is going.

A small diesel powered Air conditioning system would be a god send for many off grid skoolies.

Nat
Diesel engines become most efficient when loaded 3/4 to a full load. This is why I want to load up my power unit with charging batteries and A/C compressor at the same time. When batteries are full I will shut it down and use them to power electric A/C. As soon as batteries are low (safe low) cycle will start over. Even if your batteries are not a monsters you can still use this idea but you will cycle more often. I do plan to start thread for lithium batteries. I do have some great ideas to share....

If I don't need A/C but batteries are low the power unit will charge batteries at higher rate(safe for batteries) but A/C will be disconnected by it's clutch.

BTW you can use heating oil, WVO , used engine oil, used transmission oil, used hydraulic oil to power your small diesel engie. In this case you will get your power virtually for free.
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Old 03-20-2015, 07:06 AM   #25
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www.mikeswindmillshop/com i have been using his wind gen. for 4 years now, would love to take his class. he makes a generator to hook up to a small motor for charging. great people check it out. http://www.mikeswindmillshop.com/pro...ick-charge-pma
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:51 PM   #26
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www.mikeswindmillshop/com i have been using his wind gen. for 4 years now, would love to take his class. he makes a generator to hook up to a small motor for charging. great people check it out. Quick Charge PMA - Mike's Windmill Shop

Your first link doesn't work.
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Old 03-20-2015, 02:48 PM   #27
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Here is another looks like good PMA.

http://www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Bl...r_p/dc-500.htm

It is specifically designed to run with engine. It's power curve looks very promising...

Also they sell parts to make your own PMA. If you have an old one and some time/skills it will save couple $$:

http://www.windbluepower.com/category_s/27.htm

I contacted them and here is our conversation:

--------------------------------------------------------------
Me:

Hi, I am looking for a PMA which I want to connect to 12 HP 2 cylinder diesel engine.

My goal is to charge 10 KW/H lithium battery bank in 6-10 hours. I am thinking about using 24 V system.

The PMA must be capable of charging 24 V battery bank at 50-80 amp (charging voltage will be 30+ volt).

I will use pulley/belt system to connect PMA to engine, so RPM is not a problem. Also engine RPM will be electronically monitored and controlled according to voltage/ amperage.

I found info about your DC-500 Motor Driven Permanent Magnet Alternator

Here are 2 questions:

1. Is your PMA DC-500 capable to provide 50-80 amp of charging for 24 V battery bank? I can set any RPM you suggest.

2. If for whatever reason I need more amps can I connect 2 PMS's to get more amps(both PMS will be on the same output shaft)?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Here is an answer:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

Yes, our DC-500 will produce 60 amps at around 2,000 rpm. You can connect 2 PMA’s together but I don’t think it will be necessary in your situation.

Thank you for your interest in WindBlue Power and please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions.

Donna
--------------------------------------------------------------

I tried to contact Missouri Wind and Solar before. I asked simple question about their PMA power output and their answer was just plain and stupid.... it looks like all info they posted on their website is made up......
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Old 03-20-2015, 04:02 PM   #28
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The guy at Missouri Wind and Solar is a drug addict.

Look him up on you tube. A few years ago there was a ton of f$cked up videos on there.

No way I would send them money.

Nat
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:38 PM   #29
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I was thinking the same about the owner of Missouri Wind and Solar...... Youtube is full of negative videos about him and his products....
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:30 PM   #30
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Quick Update

I was thinking about using PMA as alternator for producing 12V or 24V. The problems are a few with PMA:

1. Most PMAs are modified car alternators.

2. I couldn't find a good professionally designed PMA under $500 USD

3. People who build PMAs make performance claims without any proof, making this claims just a blah blah blah. As a matter of fact most power, voltage, rpm etc claims are pure BS in most cases.

4. Even considering all above and finding some "good" ones the power output is very limited.

5. PMAs produce unregulated power and in order to keep power in usable and efficient range (volts, amps) engine speed must be controlled very closely.


So, after some research I decided to find a good reliable high perfomance high efficiency car alternator. I was lucky enough and found this guy:

American Power Systems 55i 200ACT 28J Alternator T33418 | eBay

It is made by American Power Systems and the model is 55i-200ACT-28J

Here some specs of this great unit:

http://www.americanpowerinc.com/imag...20shaft%20.pdf

The APS Brute series alternator delivers 6.3 kW of clean, regulated DC power in a ruggedly built chassis designed to meet the rigors of military use. This alternator is designed to meet military standards and multiple units can be paralleled for additional power.

ELECTRICAL SPECIFICATIONS:

Rated Power: 6.3 kW

Rated Voltage: 28 VDC nominal

Rotation: CW

Output Current: 225a nominal

Charge voltage setpoint: 28.2 V

Recommeded Pulley Ratio: 2:5

Output at engine idle see curve

Plug Interface: Direct OE compatible

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Love this one:

Efficiency: 87% typical.

Not bad compare to 55% efficiency of a regular car alternator.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

MECHANICAL SPECIFICATIONS:

Diameter: 7.5”.

Mount: Wide Pad or J180

Weight: 35 lbs.

Cooling: External fans

And after all I paid $ 400 USD for it which is not bad at all for a new alternator like this....
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