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Old 08-16-2015, 10:25 PM   #31
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You could run the bus with biomass-gasification..... But then you need a dump trailer of wood!

I think Britain ran their city busses off wood during WWII.



On a separate note.... Corn oil blended fuels are NOT at all beneficial for the environment and defiantly not cheaper for the consumer.
If all the farmers who grew corn for fuel ran only that oil in their tractors there would be a net negative of corn oil !!?
You also get ripped off 5% in energy per gallon with 10% corn fuel. Reducing MPG's and causing damage to your fuel system!

If you haven't relised it I like corn blended fuels like I like C.A.R.B. (Emissions aren't every thing!)
Beg my pard.... But to me "ECO" means government-funded-corporate-cash-grab.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
The lions buses normally cost $125,000.

The electric option cost $200,000 alone.

We got 12 new lions buses this year on our fleet. Only one electric.

Nat
Whoa.. This is the first I've heard of these buses. They appear to have some serious improvements over all other school buses I've seen! Composite exterior (no rusted panels!); replaceable skirt sections; corrosion proof battery box and stair well; and the electrical panel is well organized.

Lion Bus pictures

How are they holding up so far?
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by jazty View Post
Whoa.. This is the first I've heard of these buses. They appear to have some serious improvements over all other school buses I've seen! Composite exterior (no rusted panels!); replaceable skirt sections; corrosion proof battery box and stair well; and the electrical panel is well organized.

Lion Bus pictures

How are they holding up so far?
Agreed. I want one...in an RE platform
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:22 PM   #34
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From the eLion web page

Quote:
Save up to $13,000 in fuel every year.
Save up to $3.000 in maintenance every year.
A return on investment of less than 6 years.
If they cost $200,000 extra it will take 12.5 year using those figures.

Quote:
Save up to $13,000 in fuel every year.
This kind of advertising always cracks me up. $1.00 falls within that category. Even so, energy is NOT free, how much will it add to the electric bill of where ever it gets plugged into?

Will the batteries last those hypothetical 6 years? If not this goes out the door.
Quote:
Save up to $3.000 in maintenance every year.
Even if they last 10 years those batteries are going to seriously dig into that figure.

When the school district is done with it then what? I can't imagine using it for a skoolie with those battery costs.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:41 PM   #35
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The 75 mile driving range alone would disqualify it for my uses.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:41 PM   #36
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Reminds me a bit of all the daydreaming about how all electric cars are going to clean up the planet. Do their proponents ever mention that the other end of that wall plug is most likely at a coal fired generation facility? And given the losses inherent in transmission, the lost energy alone would be staggering if we all made the change tomorrow and only double-down many times over the greenhouse gases those generators produce.

Ain't no free lunch where energy is concerned. And while I believe in and am all for enhanced efficiencies across the board, I really HATE the way the money players use absurd assumptions and numbers to promote and sell their fantasy schemes.

As a great man once said...
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Benjamin Disraeli

Anybody want to invest in my perpetual motion machine?
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:55 PM   #37
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Someone requested access to the location document... I was e-mailed by Google about it but it's set to anyone that has the link can view it.
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Old 08-17-2015, 01:06 PM   #38
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The lions buses are holding up great. We have 5 that are two years old with no issues so far.

The lions bus was built in one of the worst rust belts in Canada. We are now the western Canada dealer.

In our case there will be no added cost to our electricity bill for our one electric bus. This is due to it charging from our solar array that just grew to twice the size this year. We only got one electric bus due to that's all the extra kw we can spare from the solar that also runs the 12 bay shop.

The 75 mile range is no issue for us. The bus does it's morning run, comes back and plugs in all day till it heads out for the evening run. The massive battery will only be used to around 50% DOD.

What I'm interested in is how it will do in the cold. This will be it's first test in our severe cold climate. We being the dealer must see if they are worth selling.

For reference, we use our buses to 15 years old. So if it pays for it's self in 12 years using grid power at 16 cents a kw, it should do way better running off solar that was funded partially by government grants.

Even running off grid power, the last 3 years of it's life would be gravy.

Oil is at $41 a barrel, and gas just hit $1.25 a liter. That's $5.68 a gallon.
When oil hits over $100 a barrel again, gas will be over $10 a gallon for us.

A home made electric car is in my near future. I soon won't have a choice.

All good. My poor 87 Honda CRX is at 543,000km and needing a electric conversion anyway.

Nat
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:42 PM   #39
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One of the most efficient hybrid concepts has been around since WWII. I remember a chap back in the '70's who posted plans for his version of such a hybrid with a lawnmower engine powered generator that drove the cars electric motor. It was all made from scrap parts and got 75 mpg. With today's much more efficient turbo diesels, generators and electric motors, you might well be able to double that and completely go around the issues of storing electricity and re-charging batteries...not to mention the lost cause of trying to send vast amounts of it everywhere through grossly inefficient transmission systems.

Pure solar charging for short run applications like Nat outlined are a fantastic idea for mission specific applications. But as for any truly practical, general purpose, over the road application, it will take a very different approach.

BTW...in case you weren't around in 1979...
Electric Car Conversion: The Amazing 75-MPG Hybrid Car - Green Transportation - MOTHER EARTH NEWS
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:37 PM   #40
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I like the mother earth news.

Lots of great reading.

Also check out Biofuels: Journey to Forever - how to make your own clean-burning biofuel.

Nat
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