Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-19-2016, 05:14 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 7,954
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
so I have a question... isnt it a bad scene to be grounding your 110 volt panels to the same frame that alot of your 12 volt stuff is grounded to? shouldnt you be running grounds to each appliance / receptacle.. and then WIRING a ground to the Generator or to the Shore power connection? and leave the Bus frame for the 12 volt stuff?
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 09:17 PM   #12
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,328
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
Nope. If there's going to be an ac system installed in the bus, just like any other metal building construction, the safety ground should be connected to the bus body. Without that connection devices like ground fault interrupters and over-current circuit breakers can fail to operate, ie fail to clear some types of faults by automatically disconnecting the power.

Incidentally some inverters (specifically the Xantrex PROwatt model I have) instruct that their cabinet, which is connected to the ground pin on the built-in 120v receptacles, should be connected to the dc negative/ground. When I bench tested that inverter I learned the reason for this: left unconnected its chassis floats at 60v relative to the dc input. When an unsuspecting person rests one hand on the chassis and touches either battery connection with the other hand, it results in a pretty good shock!
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 10:10 PM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 4,987
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC 1000
Engine: 5.9
Send a message via Yahoo to Robin97396
That sounds better than a car alarm. The old guys used to do that with model T coils to keep people from sitting on their car hoods.
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2016, 10:37 PM   #14
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
We've got the RV type, and it works pretty well. It's got a built in 3-stage charger that's completely automatic. We really don't even think about it. The biggest drawback is that it would be nice to have a few more 120v. circuits. We've got it maxed out with double breakers. That takes care of everything that we've got, but if we ever decide to add a circuit we're pretty much out of luck. I guess either way has plusses and minuses.
dadelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 07:42 PM   #15
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Miami
Posts: 167
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP
Engine: CAT 3116
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post
Nope. If there's going to be an ac system installed in the bus, just like any other metal building construction, the safety ground should be connected to the bus body. Without that connection devices like ground fault interrupters and over-current circuit breakers can fail to operate, ie fail to clear some types of faults by automatically disconnecting the power.
OK, now I'm officially confused! I was under the impression that the grounding was done via the incoming shore power and not to the bus frame. I just bought a Progressive Dynamics 4560 All in One center, and the installation guide that came with it (http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110030%20English.pdf ) shows the panel's ground bar being wired to the incoming ground connection. It does not show a ground connection to the bus body?

Another reason for my confusion is that grounding it to the bus would not seem to accomplish much as the bus itself is isolated from the ground by the rubber tires..
Piersg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 07:48 PM   #16
Skoolie
 
jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: onboard the R1!
Posts: 206
Year: 2004
Coachwork: International
Chassis: RE200
Engine: 7.3L Navistar T444E
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piersg View Post
OK, now I'm officially confused! I was under the impression that the grounding was done via the incoming shore power and not to the bus frame. I just bought a Progressive Dynamics 4560 All in One center, and the installation guide that came with it (http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110030%20English.pdf ) shows the panel's ground bar being wired to the incoming ground connection. It does not show a ground connection to the bus body?

Another reason for my confusion is that grounding it to the bus would not seem to accomplish much as the bus itself is isolated from the ground by the rubber tires..
you still need to be thinking about a ground for when you arent plugged into shore. ie only running off your batteries. it does show it in your manual, your hardware has the "optional chasis ground in it" your main breaker hold down screw goes right over it. i think
__________________
check out my build pics
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/member...albums833.html
or my random writings... at
www.roadrunnerlogik.blogspot.com
jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 08:00 PM   #17
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,328
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piersg View Post
OK, now I'm officially confused! I was under the impression that the grounding was done via the incoming shore power and not to the bus frame. I just bought a Progressive Dynamics 4560 All in One center, and the installation guide that came with it (http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110030%20English.pdf ) shows the panel's ground bar being wired to the incoming ground connection. It does not show a ground connection to the bus body?
Right. Well, kind of. The ground-to-neutral "bond" connection is done for you in the shore power system. I'm not in a position to speak for Progressive, but I could at least speculate they don't mention connecting the panel's ground bar to the vehicle body because they're working in a world where RVs are made of wood, not metal. Of course it wouldn't make any sense to wire a wood body to the ground bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piersg View Post
Another reason for my confusion is that grounding it to the bus would not seem to accomplish much as the bus itself is isolated from the ground by the rubber tires..
That's part of the reason why it's important. Though even if it sat on steel wheels, or had metal stabilizer jacks down, it would still be a poor electrical connection to earth.

Have you seen Mike Sokol's No Shock Zone writings? They're pretty good. His part IV addresses "Hot Skin" and part VII addresses "GFCI Theory"; both are relevant to why the bus body should be well grounded.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 08:02 PM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Miami
Posts: 167
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP
Engine: CAT 3116
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jester View Post
you still need to be thinking about a ground for when you arent plugged into shore. ie only running off your batteries. it does show it in your manual, your hardware has the chasis ground in it. i think
The DC side is grounded to the chasis, I understand that, and I can see an inverter being grounded if needed, but I think the panel itself is not grounded.
Piersg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 08:15 PM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Miami
Posts: 167
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP
Engine: CAT 3116
Rated Cap: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by family wagon View Post
Right. Well, kind of. The ground-to-neutral "bond" connection is done for you in the shore power system. I'm not in a position to speak for Progressive, but I could at least speculate they don't mention connecting the panel's ground bar to the vehicle body because they're working in a world where RVs are made of wood, not metal. Of course it wouldn't make any sense to wire a wood body to the ground bar.


That's part of the reason why it's important. Though even if it sat on steel wheels, or had metal stabilizer jacks down, it would still be a poor electrical connection to earth.

Have you seen Mike Sokol's No Shock Zone writings? They're pretty good. His part IV addresses "Hot Skin" and part VII addresses "GFCI Theory"; both are relevant to why the bus body should be well grounded.
OK, just read through this thread (http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f10/ho...-ac-448-6.html ) again, and downloaded no shock zone. Confusion is cleared up.
Piersg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 09:15 PM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
ol trunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,962
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
The no shock zone should be mandatory reading for all us bus nuts!!!!!!

If you are using a portable generator like Honda or Yamaha you will need to change their floating grounds so that they ground back to themselves. Many portable generators have a ground lug on the control panel that the mfg suggests you wire to a grounding rod---how likely is that going to be? You can find a listing of generators with floating grounds and how to make their grounds go back to the generator rather than a ground rod. With a floating generator ground, it is possible for the "skin" of the bus to become hot (electrified). Under those conditions, should you happen to step out of your bus onto wet ground while you are still, say, hanging onto the step rail, you get to be the ground----a shocking (and potentially deadly) experience. Jack
ol trunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.