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Old 08-08-2015, 11:25 AM   #91
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Also sorry for that being a little tough to read, I'm on my tablet and for some reason proof reading and editing seems almost impossible I can't scroll through with out highlighting the whole post.....new to the tap talk ap
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:26 PM   #92
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Li-on battery's don't care if they sit for a year, or get discharged everyday.

They are the best of the best for everything in every way.

Only downside is cost, and that is getting better everyday.

Nat
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:40 PM   #93
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I just don't like lion batteries. The idea of lithium and electricity together gives me the willies.
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:45 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2 View Post
I just don't like lion batteries. The idea of lithium and electricity together gives me the willies.
Your loss.

I use Li-on battery's everyday. My hand tools, shaver, cell phone, flashlight, ect.

No way I would use any other battery chemistry.

No other battery chemistry is anywhere close to as safe as Li-on.

Nat
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:48 PM   #95
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I agree with nat, they are in everything now a days. I know I have personally blown up lead acid batteries accidently....being young and not paying attention. So there are hazards with anything. Traditional Batts can vent and kill you in your sleep BTW when a batt vents it can explode. I'm sure li-ion have inherent hazards but can safely be discharged lower (from my limited understanding) wich is why I started looking at them for solar system. I will obviously have a charge controller but it's one less thing to worry about should there be a failure.
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Old 08-24-2015, 03:59 PM   #96
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If you use any battery powered digital device built within the past 10 years then you are using LiCoO2 Li-ion batteries. Laptops, phones, cameras... The dangerous kind of Li-ion battery, in fact. LiFePO4 is becoming increasingly popular for large-scale installations due to it being a far safer option than typical LiCoO2.
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:03 PM   #97
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w00t now we can armor our buses AND go green

PowerArmor™ solar panels from IDG Europe are first to provide ballistic protection, with Dyneema® high strength fibers - 11 - 2014 - Information center - Media - DSM
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Old 02-06-2016, 09:58 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster View Post
Your loss.

I use Li-on battery's everyday. My hand tools, shaver, cell phone, flashlight, ect.

No way I would use any other battery chemistry.

No other battery chemistry is anywhere close to as safe as Li-on.

Nat
It's not the safest battery, I know because I burnt few lithium batteries while experimenting with charger that I designed using SOC algorithm developed by the biggest chipset manufacturer in the US. Actually, it was their engineering evaluation kit, not my charger. Simply put, this device allows chipset to communicate with external device such as PC, so that designer don't need xtalk device the read the memory, closely monitoring the parameters stored. Ideally, it's so fanatic, they claimed their chipset will predict stored energy within something like 90% accuracy, something every system designer are dying to have in their system, but it just burnt my battery in the end. I would love to have my battery system able to continually monitor battery's SOC without complication of adding new device. Charger Controller have no business telling the SOC, and it's completely flawed marketing scheme because batteries will be charged from multiple source, not just from solar panel.

Lithium is known to start mysterious fire, and due to high density of energy cell, it's very difficult to control flames once battery is on fire. It's fire is so intense, it burnt the solid metal desk and the black dust that penetrated my lab space for days if not for weeks, just unbelievable. Metal will not melt unless it's exposed to extreme high temperature, and the lithium chew my desk's metal surface like a pancake. If I recall my incident, it's like burning a highly explosive chemical like gun powder, you get the idea.

You cannot not compare 1AH lithium battery commonly used on portable devices to lithium battery with thousand times higher capacity in vehicle application.

When Boeing company had to ground all new 787 airplanes for month, taking heavy loses, I can understand why they were so scared to death by lithium battery incidents in Japan. If I understand it correctly, Boeing tried lithium pack for plane's auxiliary power system traditionally used by engaging APU generator, because it save fuel consumption by reducing planes's weight, same reason why bus converter are trying to achieve, no other valid reason to use solar power in a bus conversion, in my opinion. Of course, once in a while, people will try different thing without a reason other than bragging right. Hey, its your money you're wasting. I'm not in a position to criticize your choice but strongly recommend looking into solar system with no bias, use your own head to justify other than someone else telling you how cool it is to have a solar system. Realistically speaking, you're NOT saving our planet by reducing couple of gallons of fuel consumption. Solar manufacturing plant itself is known to create a lot more toxic air, if you want to be technical.

Back to lithium incident in Japan, they (FAA & Boeing) determined the cause of fire to be the impurities from manufacturing process, but then the vendor is known for high QA program, far exceeding that of Toyota plant. It's easy to blame on commonly accepted cause, been used for ages. I'm not so convinced that impurities will start a fire, knowing how lithium cell generates energy. It's like a pandora box, no one really want to know, from my perspective.

From my experience working with Boeing, they're very conservative toward adopting technology, rarely incorporates new thing unless management is completely assured its safety, and the lithium has embarrassed them like never before.
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:49 AM   #99
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As stated above, the large scale installs people are doing these days are using LiFePO4 technology, not the more volatile LiCoO2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that your fire incident was with a LiCoO2 battery. While no battery is perfectly safe (lead acid included) LiFePO4 has proved to be quiet stable.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:34 PM   #100
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jazty,

I was involved in Electrical Vehicle program, when Musk was still in the kinder garden, I don't know you've heard of EV-1.
I know little of lithium batteries, unless you have a scientific data to prove Lithium Phosphate is more safer than Lithium Ion, you're not telling me anything. I read few IEEE publication, nothing has convinced me one is better than other, you think you can tell me more that I should know?
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