Solar power

[slideforlife]

wow, a roof deck made of solar panels!

these are monocrystalline silicon (non-flexible) but walk on as well.

http://www.bruceschwab.com/solar-pow...-solar-panels/

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

I'm not yet ready to order mine but its getting closer!

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

What do y'all think of the $69 Harbor Freight briefcase solar panel? Looks like it could be good for occasional use and for that extra bit if power.

[family wagon]

I guess it must be good for something.. depends on a person's use case, maybe? If I'm looking at the same one you are (#68750?) it has a 13 watt rating? On a good day that could be enough to mostly charge a smart phone, if you had time to let it sit out all day. My own personal plan is to build enough solar array to run the refrigerator very reliably with some left over to do lighting and who knows what. Maybe 2 or 3 of the 230 watt class panels. It'll probably be hard for me to completely escape keeping at least a small generator onboard, but hopefully I can get solar to cover all the needs on an "average" day.

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

Originally Posted by family wagon

I guess it must be good for something.. depends on a person's use case, maybe? If I'm looking at the same one you are (#68750?) it has a 13 watt rating? On a good day that could be enough to mostly charge a smart phone, if you had time to let it sit out all day. My own personal plan is to build enough solar array to run the refrigerator very reliably with some left over to do lighting and who knows what. Maybe 2 or 3 of the 230 watt class panels. It'll probably be hard for me to completely escape keeping at least a small generator onboard, but hopefully I can get solar to cover all the needs on an "average" day.

I think you're underrating that panel. A friend of mine had one and used it as his sole power source for years. Www.lesguis.com\wp

[dirtykids]

Anyone here have experience using the wrap panels, applied to the outside of the bus?

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

Originally Posted by family wagon

It'll probably be hard for me to completely escape keeping at least a small generator onboard, but hopefully I can get solar to cover all the needs on an "average" day.

I'm running over various power solutions at the moment. Internal construction is all but done. I can almost see the end of the journey.

I'll have to have an electric plugin point. I guess I need to put fuses in too. I really don't want to use one of those honking big breaker boxes.

Inside there will be just three 110v outlets in the kitchen area. One for the microwave, one for a fridge and one for whatever else. There will be USB outlets in the bedroom and the dinette. Basically to charge my phone, my tablet and possibly my mifi though since I now get 5gb on my phone, I probably don't need the mifi.

Lighting - I might just use portable hurricane style led lights. They should run off AA batteries. I have a ton of rechargeable AA batteries.

I'm not a great power user. I can't stand TV. I don't possess a TV or a radio\stereo\noise polluting device. The most I use are my phone, my tablet and my books.

Nothing is set in stone. But I'd like to get a small fuse setup. I'm thinking I might end up having to use three screw in fuses and 3 light sockets though I'd prefer to use the small cartridge fuses.

Im thinking initially of just having a generator then later adding a battery then solar panels as and when with the generator as backup. The cheap harbor freight generator should run a microwave.

Solar will initially just be used to recharge electronics and take care of the 12v stuff.

I'll have to see how it all goes. I've spent enough already lol

[family wagon]

The lamp socket style fuses do have that old-timey charm... but surface mount, panel mount, inline, etc are all readily available for just a few dollars from electronics suppliers. (Digi-Key, for instance, or Mouser, or Newark, and the list goes on..) Mini circuit breakers are available in similar packages. These are the kinds of things you'll find sticking through the side of an outlet strip, or in the back panel of an appliance.

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

I've not really dived in yet. Lowe's has cartridge, blade, screw-in and brick fuses but only brick fuse boxes. For my tiny home, a great bug brick is overkill. The cartridge fuses I really like though I'd be just as happy with fuse wire.

Remember fuse wire? Get a roll of 1a wire, one strand for 1a, 10 strands for 10a etc?

I'm going to have to figure out how many amps I need per socket. Might as well have them individually fused.

The beauty of the British system is each plug has its own fuse. The circuits have their own fuses. A blown fuse in a plug doesn't mean a trip to the breaker box and you know immediately which appliance has an issue. Trouble is, British sockets are designed for 250V not 110 so the wiring is thinner due to lower voltage drop through resistance.

I'm going to have to rummage in radio shack and Lowe's. Websites are great but nowhere near as good as a catalog when it comes to browsing for what's needed.

[charles_m]

Whats wrong with just using the smaller, household-type breakers in a small (2 space) breaker box? Its cheap, easy to fix, and parts are common!

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

If I can get something I can use the two inch cylindrical glass cartridge fuses in then they're cheap and plentiful.

[nat_ster]

Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2

If I can get something I can use the two inch cylindrical glass cartridge fuses in then they're cheap and plentiful.

IMO

This is a bad idea.

Stay with modern blade fuses that are common and available everywhere.

Glass fuses are getting hard to get. No vehicle on the road today uses them anymore.

I harvest hand fulls of the bade fuses every time I go to pick and pull. I have never had to buy a single one.

Most buses from 1990 to around 2000 also use the medium size blade fuses from the factory.

Nat

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

Unless I get stuff from china, I'm limited by what's available locally. Locally the selection is very poor. All I find is big box stores... Lowe's, home depot, harbor freight. Walmart, ace and radio shack. Columbia, south Carolina is a really stinky armpit!

[family wagon]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

I harvest hand fulls of the bade fuses every time I go to pick and pull. I have never had to buy a single one.

Keep in mind fuses harvested from automotive sources are often rated for only 32 volts. I confess to having used one for a 120 volt application once, before I even realized fuses had voltage ratings, and it still hasn't blown..... but it's not recommended, anyway.

Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2

Unless I get stuff from china, I'm limited by what's available locally. Locally the selection is very poor. All I find is big box stores... Lowe's, home depot, harbor freight. Walmart, ace and radio shack. Columbia, south Carolina is a really stinky armpit!

That's why I linked to Digi-Key earlier. They're an electronics distributor in Minnesota with a mind-boggling inventory of in-stock components. Enter an order by 8 pm Central and they'll have it on UPS/FedEx same day (at work we occasionally need something "RIGHT NOW!" so we order from them even late in the day and it's here in Utah in the morning if we pay for next-day early shipping). Even ground shipping goes out same-day, arrives fast, and they don't charge you through the nose for the shipping price either. It's way faster than ordering from China especially for something so common as fuses/breakers and holders. These are cheap enough that $10-$15 buys a few extra holders and a bunch of fuses. Throw 'em in a bag and tuck them into one of your electrical nooks and never worry about having to go to any store for spares; they're already on hand.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2

Inside there will be just three 110v outlets in the kitchen area. One for the microwave, one for a fridge and one for whatever else. There will be USB outlets in the bedroom and the dinette. Basically to charge my phone, my tablet and possibly my mifi though since I now get 5gb on my phone, I probably don't need the mifi.

That's a light load.. There's truly no good reason to use old style screw-in fuses. You can get away with a small 20-amp breaker box. Here's the one I have installed:


You can use two breakers instead of the 2-pole 20 amp breaker I used, but I'd advise against it. Mine is set up in the same way you will find many boats. Both neutral and hot are fed through a coupled breaker. This is for protection against reversed polarity outlets.
Let's take the example where I only have one breaker connected to the hot line. If I were to then plug the bus into an outlet with reverse polarity and overload the breaker it would trip the NEUTRAL line instead of the hot line, still feeding a live line to the outlets. Bad. A 2-pole breaker will disconnect neutral and hot at the same time, no matter the polarity.
Of course, we should all be testing unknown outlets beforehand, but I may not be the only person connecting the bus.

[dond]

Here's my load center.

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

I'm trying to get away from space hogging breaker boxes inside the bus.

Im also trying to get it set up to use as little power as possible. I'll probably have a hand pump for water rather than an electric too.

Heating water for the shower is going to be interesting. I'm not sure how well electric pumps handle hot water. Two thoughts had come to mind, well 3 actually. The first is an underbelly hot tank with a thermostat. I'll probably have to build and calibrate that lot myself, powered by a 12v element run straight from solar. The second is the same idea but a gravity fed 5 gallon tank strapped where an overhead interior cargo bin would go. The third is a 240v electric power shower.

Driving the bus, the overhead hot tank would just be dumped and turned off. None would hold more than 5 gallons heated to probably 40 - 45 centigrade (around 108 farenherit)

Transfer to the tank would be via a pump or via a separate hose when docked.

[jazty]

Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2

I'm trying to get away from space hogging breaker boxes inside the bus.

I understand that, but even an old style fuse box will be the same size as the smaller breaker boxes. The breaker box in my bus is exactly the same size as the fuse box (holds 2 fuses) that powers the air compressor in the garage. You could make the installation smaller if it were just a single fuse mounted to the wall with no enclosure, but that's a terrible idea. For 120v you really should be using UL approved devices and boxes. Extra plus: it'll make your life easier. Easy to find parts; easy to connect things; safe...

[Tango]

Originally Posted by jazty

That's a light load.. There's truly no good reason to use old style screw-in fuses. You can get away with a small 20-amp breaker box. Here's the one I have installed:


You can use two breakers instead of the 2-pole 20 amp breaker I used, but I'd advise against it. Mine is set up in the same way you will find many boats. Both neutral and hot are fed through a coupled breaker. This is for protection against reversed polarity outlets.
Let's take the example where I only have one breaker connected to the hot line. If I were to then plug the bus into an outlet with reverse polarity and overload the breaker it would trip the NEUTRAL line instead of the hot line, still feeding a live line to the outlets. Bad. A 2-pole breaker will disconnect neutral and hot at the same time, no matter the polarity.
Of course, we should all be testing unknown outlets beforehand, but I may not be the only person connecting the bus.

Funny you should mention this. Just last night I was sitting a a bar with the journeyman electrician I share my shop space with discussing just such a situation. He is in the process of totally re-wiring a machine shop where some other electrician had set the panel up just as you described NOT to. Polarity got reversed and fried every machine in the shop and started a fire that almost took the building down.

Somehow...I like your plan better.

[Zephod_beeblebrox2]

It's always good to remember that the other fellows workmanship might be questionable.

As my dad says, every electrician looks at the work of the previous one and decries is as substandard.

As in my fire extinguisher thread... It pays to be cautious though I will point out one thing..

With an ac system, live and neutral both have power going through them. They're alternately positive and negative.