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Old 06-09-2018, 07:04 PM   #81
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
I've given the info here before, so, for the umpeenth time and in miniature condensed form, here it is again.

Forget about that spring on the throttle. It's fine and until it finally breaks, just leave it alone. You can find them at any hardware store. I replaced one recently, I got an assortment package from Home Depot. It's just a simple return spring. Nothing magical or part numbered about it. You'll know when it fails because the throttle pedal won't come back up all the way, but you can push on the back of the pedal to return it to idle while driving, until you can get down there and replace the spring. I'd get a package in advance and carry it as part of your on-board replacement parts kit. Like you already do, right, with oil, water, belts, fuel filters, oil filter, water conditioner, etc. and tools.

First, to answer your question of tripping the emergency engine stop damper while engine is stopped,,,, absolutely. Go ahead and check it out for proper function and that you can reset it again. That's how it's done by a mechanic anyway. It's simply a trigger-sear type release mechanism and the stop button energizes the pull-in solenoid coil to release the latch so it allows the spring driven damper plate to close off the air intake to the blower. This should be checked occasionally anyway for proper function. As you found out, it's all right there under the floor hatch in full view.

Everyone, don't over think, or complicate the normal engine shutdown operation of the governor stop lever. It simply needs to be moved about 30 degrees and held there until the engine stops. Simple and easy to understand and visualize. The air actuated piston merely pushes it in that direction with air pressure and holds it until the air bleeds out of the bus air system.....or until the key is turned on again and the driver wants to run the engine. It's not so hard to turn by hand and hold in the off position that anyone should be able to reach in and turn it and, hold it till the engine stops. Just turn it in the same direction as the air actuator is trying to move it.

The stop lever is the short one of the two. All it does is stop the engine. Or lets it run. By the way, with no air pressure or anything affecting it, the Stop/Run lever is held in the RUN position at all times. This means that if the engine is cranked inadvertently, for any reason, it WILL start and run normally. Nice if you want to bump start it, but not so nice if you are fooling around and accidentally crank it while being entangled with stuff that goes around with the engine. Could ruin your whole day.

AGAIN, the engine STOP lever is the one that the air actuator is pushing on. All you need do is move it by hand in the direction the air actuator is pushing it. It's a mechanical lever that moves the fuel rack in the head to zero fuel, overriding the governor, thus shutting the engine down. Got It? Nothing more complicated than that. It's simple to reach, it's right in front of you as you look in from the left side, and easy to move. Nothing to worry about, no fans or belts, just reach in and turn it clockwise in the same direction the air actuator is set to move it. Hold it till the engine stops. Things might be hot, so be careful and, maybe use gloves, the exhaust manifold will be hot for sure.

This functions exactly the same way on ALL Detroit 2-stroke highway vehicles I've ever seen or driven. I've even had to physically remove the shutdown actuator from the governor top plate once, due to an electrical system fault in order to allow the engine to run so I could finish the trip. Once you understand what's going on here, and it's dead simple, you can add modifications to air lines and such in order to override the normal system operations in order to regain control and finish your journey with little fuss or muss.

I concur completely that the guy at the tire shop, with no idea of what a Crown is, or how it works, tried to shut it off with out waiting for the air pressure to build up. I would have thought the brakes wouldn't release, but the primary and secondary air systems were working against him on this. Enough to release the brakes, but not enough for all the accessory systems to be up and running yet. I STRONGLY suggest that you leave instructions with future shops to NOT try starting, or move the bus, without contacting you first. Remember they have never seen a Crown before, and the DD installation has it's own special quirks we take for granted, but not everyone is clued into the secrets.

By the way, this is how we all learn and grow in our experiences with these. I know I did, and most everyone else I know has been through similar things. Welcome to the club and I bet you won't soon forget this either. You could consider putting an easily pushed aside safety cover over the emergency shutdown button to discourage inadvertent operation of the button, even by you sometimes, by an Ooopsy. All it takes is a single push to actuate the damper. Then it's time to get out and reset it by hand. Make sure the reset handle is reachable and usable from the left side engine door so you don't have to lift the floor hatch. If it needs attention to function, or possibly requires modification to a larger handle or whatever, then the time to do it is at your leisure in your yard with tools at hand, and not on the side of a road somewhere in the snow and ice, raining cats and dogs etc. Well, you get the picture. Proper, Prior, Planning, and all that can really pay off.

Anticipate in advance the critical items that can put you down, hard, full stop, and try to install plumbing and/or electrical work arounds to get around those failures, to keep on driving. For instance, Fuel filters. A spare set, mounted in place, and plumbed, so all you need do is turn valve(s) and keep on going.

An easy to use engine priming system to re-prime the engine. It can be as simple or as elaborate as you want, but it should be all plumbed and ready to go for when you eventually find yourself running out of fuel, usually in the darkest most empty stretch of highway you can imagine. At that point you'll finally find out just how hard it is to find any mechanic who really knows how to re-prime a 2-stroke, and it ain't pretty, I know this from first hand experience. But it wasn't my screw up, so I got to stand back and watch them go through three (3) count'em 3 mechanics before they found an old gray haired guy who had the knowledge and the tools at hand to get their MCI 8-71 primed and running again. You should do whatever you can to install a proper re-priming system you can handle by yourself if needed. Soon. It will save you a whole bunch of trouble later.

Running a bus out of fuel, back in the day, was a fire-able offense and we all acted accordingly. You should always be aware of your fuel state, and where to get fuel, at all times. But be prepared to recover gracefully, just in case.

You should consider one or two easily reached air fittings, front and back, maybe one with a truck style glad-hand like what truckers use on trailers. These air taps can be used to air up the bus to release brakes etc., if it needs towing, as well as for use by tools or outside accessories in a pinch.

A high current proper battery plug, to charge, or use to jump start the engine. Installed and ready to go, eliminates all the hassles with clamping on to battery posts and jumper cables. Many ideas about how to do this with house batteries and generators etc. Think it through and plan and install it ready for the day you'll need it, and you won't regret it.

Think first about how to keep the vehicle running and usable and easily limped to a service facility. This should be paramount before worrying about what kind of wood flooring or trim to use on the interior. Without a safe and reliable vehicle under you, all you have is a fancy trailer that won't be moving anytime soon, not even Spam in a can, just carpets in a can. How much fun can that be.

Stuff like this should be thought about in advance and provisions made to work around quickly when things fail on the road. This will make life much simpler and you'll have confidence you can get yourself out of nasty situations while still retaining control of your expenses.
Thanks for all th information man! I am going to try the emergency stop again to make sure itís working. Also I do want to have back up options in case of breakdowns like an extra alternator, extra belts, filters, etc. Do you know what kind of belt I would need as far as part number or size for my Detroit 6-71 pancake?
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:54 PM   #82
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Okay so I wired our AC panel and RV 30 amp inlet today to test out, here is the YouTube video I posted on our conversion YouTube. For anyone who wants to see and give any feedback of what we can do better or anything they see that might be off.

https://youtu.be/mvKiTTXqcMQ
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:41 PM   #83
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
Agreed, but the power and torque are then not fully developed at the road speed the manufacturer originally intended, and that will (slightly) affect driveability. You may gain one thing, but probably at the expense of something else. That's what I meant!

John
Hey IceniJohn any idea of how I can find the fan bearing with zerk fitting, I am going to be taking my bus in to get greased up and I want to make sure they get the fan bearing most importantly, crownguy told me its towards the front of the bus. If you could give me your input so I know where all the zerk fittings are so I can make sure I tell the guys at the shop so none are missed.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:55 PM   #84
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,155
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Locate your fan and follow back on the shaft where it meets with the housing for the bearing. That is where the zerk fitting can be found on any fan, not in some remote location. Just feel around and you'll see or feel it.

Easy peasy but very important to keep greased. You might get dirty hands though doing the inspection.



John
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:18 PM   #85
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Locate your fan and follow back on the shaft where it meets with the housing for the bearing. That is where the zerk fitting can be found on any fan, not in some remote location. Just feel around and you'll see or feel it.

Easy peasy but very important to keep greased. You might get dirty hands though doing the inspection.



John
Hey John, thanks for the input, I went to the bus today and I am trying to find the fitting (zerk) for the fan bearing, I was told by one of the crown guys CrownGuy that I need to grease the fan bearing as well and that the fitting is a little hard to find and that is a reason it is neglected by people a lot. He told me that it is behind the towards the front of the bus, I couldn't find it for the life of me so I looked right at the round connection where the fan and belt meet, there is a bearing there I believe (attached photos) and there is old grease there, when I touched inside the bearing there one of the surfaces has a slight bump sort of metal nipple feeling that I believe is the fitting, although I am not sure since I do not have experience or idea of what they feel like, I am attaching some pictures of the whole area for anyone who might know if what I felt is correct and if that is where I should grease the bearing and if thats where the zerk fitting should be.

On picture 3 you see where the fan is and where the belt is, between there is a bearing I believe or the piece that moves and holds the fan blades, in one of those gaps I felt a metal round bump sort of like a nipple petruding but I wasn't sure if thats where the grease goes in as sit wasn't that raised or didn't feel like a fitting exactly, maybe the grease around it buried it a bit, can someone tell me if these pictures I attached is in fact where I should be looking for the zerk fitting for the fan bearing?
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:52 PM   #86
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 693
Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
I'm not familiar with mid-engine Crowns' radiator fans; my bus has a hydraulic fan drive, completely different than yours. I can however throw out a few ideas for greasing.

Get under the bus on a creeper or a sheet of cardboard, wearing some old clothes and with several kerosene-wetted rags. No, don't set fire to them! Use the rags to thoroughly clean every Zerk fitting you find - they're on the front axle's kingpins (I think three on each), every brake slack adjuster, the tie rod and drag link at the front, the drive shaft, and in your case somewhere on the fan drive. There could be up to maybe two dozen in total. When the Zerks are all squeaky clean, gently pump in fresh grease until the old stuff begins to ooze out (it helps to use a different colored grease than what's in there now), but don't over-pressure a Zerk otherwise you could risk blowing out seals, or worse. If any Zerks don't take grease at all, you have to unscrew them and either clean or replace them (they're cheap, but get the correct thread size). After each Zerk is regreased, cap it with a yellow plastic Zerk cap to A) keep the crap out, and B) to help you find them all again.

While you're under there, check the brakes' slack adjusters for travel, and if you can't do it by hand from under there do what I did - put a bright red or yellow cable tie around each pushrod, then you can easily see how much travel there is at a full application. If you have automatic slack adjusters, DO NOT manually adjust them. (About two years ago I had to get my bus towed, and when the tow truck driver was under the bus he told me he had never seen a privately-owned bus or RV with Zipties on the pushrods and Zerk caps everywhere. He said it's rare to see them even on fleets. If you ever get inspected by a LEO or DOT inspector, they'll be impressed to see them there!)

I don't know if your Crown has the Crown Control variable-pitch radiator fan that varied its blade pitch according to coolant temperature, or just a plain fan with or without a fan clutch. If the former, they're well known for jamming up solid because the grease in them dries hard, but freeing a jammed one is a laborious disassembly job. Do you have a belt tensioner for the fan belt? If you do, is it a simple spring-loaded one, or an air tensioner, or what? It could also have a Zerk or two.

After doing all this, you will be A) a lot more familiar with the underbelly of the beast, and B) very very dirty! While under there, also check all the hoses, check the insides of the tires, especially the rear duals, for cuts and problems, check for oil and other leaks, and get yourself familiar with every nook and cranny of your bus. Nobody else will.

John
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:53 AM   #87
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
I'm not familiar with mid-engine Crowns' radiator fans; my bus has a hydraulic fan drive, completely different than yours. I can however throw out a few ideas for greasing.

Get under the bus on a creeper or a sheet of cardboard, wearing some old clothes and with several kerosene-wetted rags. No, don't set fire to them! Use the rags to thoroughly clean every Zerk fitting you find - they're on the front axle's kingpins (I think three on each), every brake slack adjuster, the tie rod and drag link at the front, the drive shaft, and in your case somewhere on the fan drive. There could be up to maybe two dozen in total. When the Zerks are all squeaky clean, gently pump in fresh grease until the old stuff begins to ooze out (it helps to use a different colored grease than what's in there now), but don't over-pressure a Zerk otherwise you could risk blowing out seals, or worse. If any Zerks don't take grease at all, you have to unscrew them and either clean or replace them (they're cheap, but get the correct thread size). After each Zerk is regreased, cap it with a yellow plastic Zerk cap to A) keep the crap out, and B) to help you find them all again.

While you're under there, check the brakes' slack adjusters for travel, and if you can't do it by hand from under there do what I did - put a bright red or yellow cable tie around each pushrod, then you can easily see how much travel there is at a full application. If you have automatic slack adjusters, DO NOT manually adjust them. (About two years ago I had to get my bus towed, and when the tow truck driver was under the bus he told me he had never seen a privately-owned bus or RV with Zipties on the pushrods and Zerk caps everywhere. He said it's rare to see them even on fleets. If you ever get inspected by a LEO or DOT inspector, they'll be impressed to see them there!)

I don't know if your Crown has the Crown Control variable-pitch radiator fan that varied its blade pitch according to coolant temperature, or just a plain fan with or without a fan clutch. If the former, they're well known for jamming up solid because the grease in them dries hard, but freeing a jammed one is a laborious disassembly job. Do you have a belt tensioner for the fan belt? If you do, is it a simple spring-loaded one, or an air tensioner, or what? It could also have a Zerk or two.

After doing all this, you will be A) a lot more familiar with the underbelly of the beast, and B) very very dirty! While under there, also check all the hoses, check the insides of the tires, especially the rear duals, for cuts and problems, check for oil and other leaks, and get yourself familiar with every nook and cranny of your bus. Nobody else will.

John
Hey John! Thank you so much for your feedback, luckily I found a shop "SpeedCo" which is owned by Loves that greased up my bus, they allowed me to look and were very nice. This way I was able to watch and take pictures of all the zerk fittings, we were able to find the fan fitting after about 20 minutes of digging around, it was actually easier to spot by going inside the bus, removing the access panel that is on the floor to the fan and it was right there, that piece rotates so the guy told me if you can't find it easily, crank the engine just a bit so that it rotates enough for you to spot it. He also topped off some of the oil on the rear it since it was a little low and topped off the oil in the rims (hub oil).

I have made contact with two charter companies in the area that offered to take a look at our crown and possibly do the maintenance, they have experience with diesel 2 strokes as those were widely used in the 70's and 80's.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:01 AM   #88
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 152
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Window Shades/Covers

I have added these window shades to our crown bus since we will be taking it for our first trip down to Tennessee from Missouri. Since it isn't really finished inside I though adding these shades will help with the heat a bit and also not allow anyone to look inside, also hopefully the campground we booked allows us to park there, we have tents in case we want to sleep outside but I hope they don't give us trouble, I even sent the reservations lady a picture of the bus and asked if that was fine and she said it was okay, I hope when we get to the park they don't give us any problems.

attached are pictures of the "RediShades" they basically are made of construction paper, I am not sure how long these will hold up to the heat and also to any dew that builds up on colder days, but at $15 for 6 of them on amazon, they are easily replaceable. I am probably going to custom drill holes on them and add wire/rope so it holds them butter sort of like blinds.

The product: http://a.co/j7ApTho
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVIMG_20180711_175015.jpg (195.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180711_175009.jpg (124.6 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180711_174729.jpg (281.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20180711_174322.jpg (244.2 KB, 6 views)
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