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Old 04-17-2009, 01:40 PM   #331
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

excellent work
as they say the devil is in the details most maintainence/repair issues can be tracked back to the little stuff that didn't get done or didn't get serviced on a routine basis.
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:13 PM   #332
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylinelimo
After totally revamping all the connectors and making a good ground connection to the chassis, there is no more scalding hot battery terminal. The 165amp 24V alternator increases voltage across the series-connected 12V batteries from the low 24s to almost 25V when the engine is revved.
glad to hear it!
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:36 PM   #333
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

got the A/C working again. spoke with the manufacturer and they said that on hot days (I would say Texas qualifies haha), it will draw up to 2.5x the normal operating wattage of 1147W. so looking at putting it on it's own inverter (onto the chassis batteries) since with the jacuzzi alone, that would push the load over 3000W, the size of the coach inverter.

not sure yet if the alternator would need to be upsized, or if the existing one will help enough; most runs don't last more than 6 hours or so, assuming the a/c is on 100% of the time.
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:29 PM   #334
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

Or...you could add another battery bank and a second 24 volt alternator. Hear me out on this now. Using the coach batteries and charging system for such a high demand device is a bit scary in that it leaves you without redundancy. It would take nothing for that AC to kill the coach batteries, even with the alternator running at full tilt boogie (which, coincidently, will drastically shorten its life). To get 3000 watts out of a 12 volt alternator it will need to be CONSTANTLY pushing 250 amps of current. That's A LOT and it doesn't include the other essential demands like headlights and the like.

So...a dedicated alternator for the AC might be best given the fact that this is a commercial application. So why 24 volts? A 24 volt alternator (and inverter) will produce the same amount of power, but at half the current of a 12 volt system. Current is what makes your heat and heat is what kills alternators so this is obviously a good thing. It is also far easier on the brushes as higher voltages transfer power much more effectively. On top of that, the wiring to handle a continuous 125 amps is FAR easier to deal with than the Golden Gate Bridge sized cables required to handle 250 amps. On top of that, battery connections will do far better at that lower load. 250 continuous amps of current will melt the threaded insert right out of a side post battery. Top posters like you have are a little more robust, but that doesn't mean the heat isn't taking its toll.

Just my $.02
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:50 AM   #335
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

hmm yeah I thought of getting another set of batteries but (1) where to put them...and could probably figure that out, but (2) this means a third alternator?
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:47 PM   #336
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

i'm sure that the jacuzzi takes far less current to run than the A/C unit. Why not run just the A/C unit off from the current 24 volt alternator/inverter setup and run the jacuzzi off of it's own 2000 watt inverter from the house batteries?

I don't know/recall the power requirements of the jacuzzi pump, but i would immagine it is 1.5 hp or less.

Another great option that is a little less straight foward is to replace the jacuzzi pump with a smaller less demanding pump. This may affect the time it takes to heat the jacuzzi water, but a heat exchanger could also be added which would heat that quantity of water almost on demand.

i appologize that the current setup isn't working as intended.

Other expensive options are:

an a/c compressor that runs off from the engine, just like you have in a car or other limo's

they make 10K watt hydraulic generators that will run off of the buses engine. We use these on fire trucks. They give you constant power regardless of enigne speed....mostly.

I have been given my lay-off notice and should be unemployed started may 1st. I wish texas wasn't so far away or i'd try to just cruise down there to help figure things out. IF you purchase Jacuzzi bus V maybe we can work out a deal where i deliver the bus to you and while i'm at it help reconfigure the electrical system on jacuzzi bus IV.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:36 PM   #337
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

I like the heat exchanger idea, depending upon the price of one of those and the difficulty to implement at the jacuzzi's current location. You have any, or know where I can get one cheap? Perhaps it's not much more than drilling a couple holes in the floor and routing it towards the engine. The pump is a 1.5horse, a little over 1.1kW. I've put a fog machine in there (400W) and a couple laser machines (~50W each). Of course you have the TV and stereo and ceiling lights. (are those LED ropes?) In the meantime, I've just heated the tub a day or so in advance, and just disconnected it during a run, which gets us through without any overloads but only the occasional "yea! turn the jacuzzi jets on!". Could continue to do that, but would rather everything be on and operating like it should with good headroom left for the inverter(s).
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:42 PM   #338
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

i buy my heat exchangers from ebay...there is one on there with buy it now for $85 with free shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brazed-Stainless...3A1%7C294%3A50

you don't need a very big heat exchanger for the jacuzzi application. You could easily tap into the coolant lines that run to the rear heater, then just run a 1" ID hose from the jacuzzi pump to the heat exchanger and back. I don't know how to make it work with the current pump, since it's high power. (i guess you could tap into that little quarter inch ID hose that is currently wound around the motor, but it woudl take a long time to heat things up with because you would be moving such a small quantity of water through the tubing) I would suggest buying a cheap pump from harbor freight. This one is only about $40 bucks. I've used these exact pumps in several jacuzzi applications and had pretty good luck. One wierd thing about them is that if they sit for long periods of time with no water in them (2 weeks or so) you have to turn the motor by hand a few revolutions before you start it up or else it won't turn. There is even a warning in the instruction manual that tells you to do just that. I've run one of those for a week straight in the desert at burningman just to filter water, and for extended periods on jacuzzi's in 3 separate buses.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=1479

I think it takes about 7 amps @ 110 volts to run the pump.

I'd be more than happy to do all the work of installing the new jacuzzi system for free if i actually get laid off from my job and we can find a way to get me to texas. A 2K watt inverter is about $200 bucks, plus the pump and the heat exchanger, some plumbing fittings and 1" ID heater hose prob works out to less than $500 in parts. With the smaller pump you do loose the good jet action in the jacuzzi, but you still have the ability to heat/filter water while in transit.

here is a 2k watt inverter for $178
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92464

The new 2K watt inverter and stock bus alternator shouldn't have to work too hard to run the 1/2 hp pump, plus a few other things. I would save that giant military inverter for the a/c unit.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:11 PM   #339
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapeer20m
taf?Itemnumber=92464[/url]
The new 2K watt inverter and stock bus alternator shouldn't have to work too hard to run the 1/2 hp pump, plus a few other things. I would save that giant military inverter for the a/c unit.
2000 watts is ~160 amps at 12 volts. My alternator is only rated at 130 amps and to expect any more than 100 amps out of it on a constant basis would be pushing it. Have you just had the good fortune of getting buses with rugged and manly alternator ratings?
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:26 AM   #340
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Re: Jacuzzi Bus IV

I usually upgrade the alternators on all my buses to 160 or 200 amps. There is a local alternator shop that does the work for me. I've seen 300 amp alternators, but they are really pricey!. I agree that 2000 watts is a lot to ask of a 12 volt alternator, but a motor rated for 700 watts (about 5.8 amps at 120 volts, or about 50 amps @ 14 volts) would be the primary electrical load. An alternator is able to keep up with that pretty easy. I've used that setup for 30K miles. I've also replaced a couple of alternators along the way.
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