Marky's Conversion!

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

Yea, I found the sliverleaf from offgr1d's coach build thread and investigated. I like what I was seeing. However, I have programming skills and was wondering how far I could take that, so I'll look into the Nexiq.

Thanks!

im wsorking on my own version of the Silverleaf.. mainly because i want my own software.. theirs is OK but theres a lot of paraemters missing on mine.. that I know exist because the navistar software displays them.. I believe them to be requested parameters..

so im building out the ELM325 example.. actually a modded version thats on an RV forum without the bluetooth.. and then i can write my own project to display parameters.. either a .NET project or python / QT on a PI... not sure which ill go yet.. but since im already using a PI for my glass switch panel project I may go that route...
-Christopher

[MarkyDee]

P.M.'ed you.

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[MarkyDee]

Well, I'm making really slow progress, but I have almost all of the seats unbolted:


Good new, though, I just got almost all of the seats sold on Thursday and they will be picked up first part of July.


Then I got the back hatch open and I found this:

(The transmission computer is hanging by its wires....)

But the PLC looks like its doing fine even after 17 years....


But, o wow, what a lot of wires....

[MarkyDee]

Also, yesterday I found an Intel-based computer that has 8 Power-over-Ethernet ports (along with two 'standard' Ethernet ports) and it runs off of 24V DC (exactly what my bus generates!), so I can use PoE cameras for rear-view!

And I work for a digital security video company so I should be able to get leads on some good cameras....

[MarkyDee]

And instead of titling my bus in VT, I decided to be "good" and title it in Indiana. Well, I started the process late May and Indiana still hasn't mailed my title to me - its still "being processed."

Yea, right.

[water boy]

So what is your end goal with the bus?

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

And instead of titling my bus in VT, I decided to be "good" and title it in Indiana. Well, I started the process late May and Indiana still hasn't mailed my title to me - its still "being processed."

Yea, right.

heh, it came the day after I posted....

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by water boy

So what is your end goal with the bus?

Convert to motorhome/RV??

Really, I was very disturbed by how low-quality the mechanics of the low-end motorhomes are/were (at least the ones I researched). So, I bought an old commercial bus to convert. Its probably about the same amount of work as a skoolie, but with different design choices and limitations. And since I'm needing to house four kids as well, I wanted the room of a 45-footer (school buses are limited to 42' by law, and those are expensive).

[cadillackid]

how cool!!! i never saw a bus with a PLC rack in it!! is that what they use to run all the periopherals like the passenger lights / fans, A/C units and the like?

total coolness!!
-Christopher

[MarkyDee]

Yes, and then some. I've counted a total of 116 I/O points covering everything from mirrors, doors, idiot lights, HVAC, and engine and transmission controls and signals (and pretty much everything in between). Having the complete electrical schematics and the PLC program has helped me understand this beastie....

Funny thing, this PLC is very similar to the ones I worked on my first job out of college (GE Fanuc 90-30, although I worked on the 90-70 as well). I learned a lot on that first job. I'd love to do it again (if I was a bit younger, it was physically demanding and I've been an office rat since then...). I had an absolute blast, only leaving when it was obvious the company was in trouble and a great opportunity showed up elsewhere.

Electrical I have no real problems figuring out. Pneumatic systems is a different story. This poor bus has oil and junk in what I think is the wet tank (manual purge valve spews when opened under pressure), so I'm sure I've got a big job cleaning it out. I'm wondering if I'm going to have to fix or replace the compressor. Anybody out there an expert on bus pneumatic systems?

[cadillackid]

some oil in the wet tank is normal... is your wet tank before or after the air dryer? big bet is that the air dryer cartridge hasnt been changed in years... its possible the compressor is bad.. hard to tell unless you know how much oil is coming through..

sometimes the systems are plumbed where the air compressor intake uses Turbo Air instead of outside air.. if there is an EGR type system plumbed instead of a draft tube you can get oil in the compressor that way too. that one is a bit unusual..

-Christopher

[MarkyDee]

The pneumatic schematic shows:

1. that the supply side of the compressor is plumbed from the engine intake manifold through a silicone hose.

2. the discharge of the compressor goes into a muffler tank, then to the air dryer, and on to the wet tank.

3. the muffler tank and wet tank have a drain valve. The air dryer has a purge tank - also with a drain valve.

4. the air dryer and wet tank both have hoses back to the compressor's governor.

Unfortunately, I don't yet know where all of these drain valves are on the bus. The valve I opened yesterday (and had the bus sneeze oil and grease all over my legs and shoes) could very well have been the muffler tank valve.

[cadillackid]

The dryer is easy to find it will be where the Sssshhh sound comes from when the purge cycle occurs. You don't want to be under the dryer when it purges .. most typically the governor kicks off a 120 and the shhh occurs.. then the governor kicks back in at 90 or 100, though I've seen them set really tight before. Once you find the dryer and look the model up.. ie bendix AD 4 or AD9 are common then you can follow the lines fairly easy to see what goes where.
Christopher

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

The dryer is easy to find it will be where the Sssshhh sound comes from when the purge cycle occurs. You don't want to be under the dryer when it purges .. most typically the governor kicks off a 120 and the shhh occurs.. then the governor kicks back in at 90 or 100, though I've seen them set really tight before. Once you find the dryer and look the model up.. ie bendix AD 4 or AD9 are common then you can follow the lines fairly easy to see what goes where.
Christopher

My docs say that the air dryer is a "T-2000". As for the "shhhh", it sounds like it comes from between the tag axle and drive axle. Seems I need to get under the bus to get at the air system....

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[MarkyDee]

Sold, delivered, and they are on their way to Honduras! What a relief....


Thank you, Luis!


Next, overhead baggage bins come out....

[MarkyDee]

Bins are coming along nicely now that I know something of what's behind them.

But my big "aha!" of the day was that I finally found the "Commercial Motor Vehicle Inspectors" department of the Indiana State Police - specifically their email address.

Why would I be interested in them?

To determine if I wanted to keep the vehicle titled as "BUS", or flip it to "RV". Oh, and to ask someone who is supposed to TRULY know if I need a CDL to drive it. The reason for the CDL question is that I kept getting conflicting answers from the BMV, county police, friends, acquaintances, etc., for reasons ranging from "oh, it has air brakes? you need a CDL" to "oh, its a private vehicle, no CDL is needed" and everything in between. Talk about confusion-city....

And what they had to say really completed the "aha!" moment. The answer to the first question was "as a 'BUS' you can drive it 'commercially' or 'privately' - you have a choice, but as an 'RV', it can ONLY be driven 'privately'. We'll getcha if you try to drive an 'RV' 'commercially'." Ouch, but I don't know how they would do so.

The answer to the second question is exactly what most here "in the know" have said - as long as you are driving it 'privately' (e.g. not for a commercial purpose / making money) then NO CDL IS NEEDED!

Indiana State Patrol Officer that answered my question!

[cadillackid]

wow this is different from Ohio.. as they told me that whether or not I need a DOT number on it and to comply with DOT regs.. like logs / hours / inspections, etc. was whether I was operating it commercially or not.. but in Ohio if I operate a commercial vehicle in any manner i must follow the licensing rules.. if its an RV then CDL laws dont apply.. and they said you can make a Semi truck an RV.. its really interesting how vehicles that are operated in many states are regulated by their home state in so many different ways...

like i have to wonder if you drove your bus to ohio and got picked off by the staties would they say "hey you need a CDL" even though in your registered state you dont.. and do the computers in their cruisers tell them that..

and the fact the laws are written very Gray... ie here in ohio i learned you sont even have to paint over or remove your school bus insignia because the law is specifically written to say "church bus rules".. its a loop hole and now i understand how so many farm busses here look just like regular skoolies.. because they can.. the law was probably written when the only people buyimng old school busses in any amount were churches...

-Christopher

[dan-fox]

Hopefully the commerce clause of the constitution would kick in and the state you were present in would have to respect the state of origin. Works for meat inspection; doesn't work for same sex marriage licenses; might work for bus registrations.

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

wow this is different from Ohio.. as they told me that whether or not I need a DOT number on it and to comply with DOT regs.. like logs / hours / inspections, etc. was whether I was operating it commercially or not.. but in Ohio if I operate a commercial vehicle in any manner i must follow the licensing rules.. if its an RV then CDL laws dont apply.. and they said you can make a Semi truck an RV.. its really interesting how vehicles that are operated in many states are regulated by their home state in so many different ways...

like i have to wonder if you drove your bus to ohio and got picked off by the staties would they say "hey you need a CDL" even though in your registered state you dont.. and do the computers in their cruisers tell them that..

and the fact the laws are written very Gray... ie here in ohio i learned you sont even have to paint over or remove your school bus insignia because the law is specifically written to say "church bus rules".. its a loop hole and now i understand how so many farm busses here look just like regular skoolies.. because they can.. the law was probably written when the only people buyimng old school busses in any amount were churches...

-Christopher

Oh, believe me, the BMV (both times I've been there) have been adamant that I must have a CDL to drive it, even personally. Their exact words were "you must get a CDL to be in compliance." That was even after I told them that I consulted the CMVD ("Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement Division") of the Indiana State Police and was told I didn't need a CDL to drive it personally / privately / not-for-financial-gain....

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by dan-fox

Hopefully the commerce clause of the constitution would kick in and the state you were present in would have to respect the state of origin. Works for meat inspection; doesn't work for same sex marriage licenses; might work for bus registrations.

*Soap Box*
Skip if you don't want to hear my "venting"....

If you read the federalists' papers and other writings surrounding the Constitution, the Commerce Clause has been bent and squeezed into a shape very unlike what the founding fathers meant it to be. It originally had a rather narrow meaning - it was to keep the States from erecting "trade barriers" between themselves (import duties, etc.) - kinda like what is commonly understood today as a "free trade zone". Other laws at the federal level were supposed to be for harmonizing the various licenses that States bestow (i.e. marriage license, driver's license). If there was no federal law for a specific kind of license, then the States could enact laws that recognized each other's licenses (i.e. handgun / conceal carry license). That setup was part of what was commonly referred to "States' Rights" back then - if a given 'power' wasn't specifically enumerated to the federal level by the Constitution, then it was reserved to the state.

What was intended was that: (1) the House of Representatives would be where natural-born and naturalized citizens had their representation at the federal level; (2) the Senate was where the States had its representation (remember, the Constitution was a treaty primarily between the several States, with a nod to the fact that States are actually made up of people); (3) the Supreme Court was to primarily adjudicate disputes between the States or when a State was a party (it was only supposed to have secondary jurisdiction for natural-born / naturalized citizens); and (4) the President was to faithfully "put into operation the treaty between the States" for the good and protection of the States and citizens.

What we have today is that: (1) the federal legislature is passing laws that should only be operable in the District of Columbia (remember, the federal legislature also does the job of a state legislature for the District!), but those laws are deemed in operation throughout the U.S.A. simply because the federal legislature made them (in opposition to State's Rights...); (2) popular election of Senators, breaking the link between the Senator and what a State "thinks" is best for it at the federal level ("no taxation without representation" was supposed to extend to the States, the Constitution was primarily a treaty between the States and now the States have no real representation) - Senators are now nothing more than glorified representatives; (3) Judges "legislating from the bench" by simply "reading into" the laws whatever they want to see, as well as many person-person suits finding their way to the Supreme Court; (4) and Presidents legislating via Executive Orders and Presidential Memorandums (EOs and PMs really supposed to be "how" the federal gov't operates and not have the force of law outside it, but we see them stating "in an emergency, federal officials have the power to confiscate foodstuffs, power sources, vehicles, etc., and put people who resist in concentration camps" and other weird stuff like that).

Ok, I'm done "venting" - thank you for listening. Now, back to buses!!!