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06-18-2015, 06:32 PM
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#1
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Advice with manual trans.
I just scored a 5 speed manual transmission with overdrive. It is a Dana 6453 that they used in M800 series 5 ton trucks. Now almost all the trucks I see have automatics. It has a SAE #2 bell housing I believe. It is unused since being overhauled. How difficult would this be to install behind my DT408 or DT466?
I know we have members that served in the military. Did any of you drive a truck with this transmission? Input please.
I won't pick it up until my trip to get my bus in July. This is a picture on the same unit from Boyce Equipment.
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06-18-2015, 07:29 PM
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#2
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
I know we have prior members that served in the military. Did any of you drive a truck with this transmission? Input please.
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I TC'd (truck commander aka "shotgun") the M818 that was the prime mover for our jump TOC when I was in the Army Guard. After going through 3 tractors, because of parts issues, we managed to limp into Ft Drum on fumes. It's pretty rock-solid and maintained highway speeds hauling a 6 ton shop-trailer along I-81
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06-18-2015, 07:43 PM
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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I don't have the same HP that you did. I hope to add some juice to the engine.
Were any of the parts issues related to the transmission?
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06-19-2015, 05:19 AM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: EHT New Jersey
Posts: 1,134
Year: 2003
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International 3000RE
Engine: T444E/AT545
Rated Cap: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
I don't have the same HP that you did. I hope to add some juice to the engine.
Were any of the parts issues related to the transmission?
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One wouldn't get out of first, the first one had torque issues, but I want to emphasize more along the lines of parts availability, wear, and age. That Guard unit had trucks so old that the dataplates said "Kaiser-Willy's XM-818". The Army's supply chain had phased out parts for M800 series trucks, so the Guard was stuck with what was left in the supply system or "creative adaptation".
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06-19-2015, 10:57 AM
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooternj
One wouldn't get out of first, the first one had torque issues, but I want to emphasize more along the lines of parts availability, wear, and age. That Guard unit had trucks so old that the dataplates said "Kaiser-Willy's XM-818". The Army's supply chain had phased out parts for M800 series trucks, so the Guard was stuck with what was left in the supply system or "creative adaptation".
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OK, thanks. This has a rebuild date of 1991. Maybe it came out of one of your trucks.
I need to see if this swap is even possible. I have zero knowledge of standard transmission parts. At least it has a #2 housing so that's a good start. At least I think it does.
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06-19-2015, 01:06 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,678
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Same trans I'm looking at swapping.
The one I'm looking at has the sae#2 housing. I'm fairly certain they all do. I think the flywheel housing is a standardized part with fixed dimensions so you shouldn't have to worry much about that.
I'm not sure if you have a flywheel on the dt or not(My IDI does even though it is an auto).
The only thing that I seen that might be problematic is the input shaft. They had 3 pages of different options so you'll have to see if the one you have will work.
For me, it seems like a good option for a manual transmission. The only negative is I think the gear splits are kind of broad. I figured it up for my bus with a 5.57 rear gear, shifting at the 3500 governed speed, it would end up being about a 1500 rpm split. That's alright for me because torque peak is at 1400 rpm, so I have some wiggle room on the top and bottom.
Your engine, however, is only governed to 2400. Shifting at governed speed, your rpm split will be less than mine(closer to 1000). But with peak torque at 1300, I think the gear split is too big for your engine's power band. If it was me, I'd try and find something with more gears.
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06-19-2015, 01:53 PM
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#7
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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My AT545 gears are 3.45:1, 2.25:1, 1.41:1, 1.00:1.
The Dana is 6.07:1, 3.40:1, 1.79:1, 1.00:1, .78:1.
I will try to bump the HP and learn to shift fast or faster.
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06-19-2015, 08:26 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
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bet it is a crash box, no synchronizers, so you will be shifting slower and you will be changing the flywheel since the one for automatic transmissions is lighter and has no clutch surface
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06-19-2015, 10:47 PM
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#9
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 65
Year: 1990
Coachwork: happy camper RV repair
Chassis: international
Engine: 360 international
Rated Cap: 66 passenger
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Speaking of turning up power does anyone know a good injection pump shop that can rework the old mechanical pumps and nozzle?
__________________
rvingoffgrid.com
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06-20-2015, 01:14 AM
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#10
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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I've heard Oregon Fuel Injection has a good reputation.
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06-20-2015, 01:15 AM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla
bet it is a crash box, no synchronizers, so you will be shifting slower and you will be changing the flywheel since the one for automatic transmissions is lighter and has no clutch surface
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I think it is a synchro trans.
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06-20-2015, 12:40 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvingoffgrid
Speaking of turning up power does anyone know a good injection pump shop that can rework the old mechanical pumps and nozzle?
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Better to just go watch a few videos on you tube and do it yourself.
It's not hard.
Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."
Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
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06-22-2015, 11:15 AM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,678
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla
bet it is a crash box, no synchronizers, so you will be shifting slower and you will be changing the flywheel since the one for automatic transmissions is lighter and has no clutch surface
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I think the trans came both synchronized and not. You'll have to pull the top off to be sure.
I also thought that the DT series engines all came with flywheels, and if you wanted the auto an adapter plate was bolted to it to hold the torque converter. If so, All you'd have to do is a quick clean up and maybe a resurfacing and you'll be in business.
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06-22-2015, 11:23 AM
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
I think the trans came both synchronized and not. You'll have to pull the top off to be sure.
I also thought that the DT series engines all came with flywheels, and if you wanted the auto an adapter plate was bolted to it to hold the torque converter. If so, All you'd have to do is a quick clean up and maybe a resurfacing and you'll be in business.
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You must be wrong. Nothing in life is that easy. If this is true, that would be awesome.
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06-22-2015, 02:01 PM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,678
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycal
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I very well could be.
I know one of the busses(1990 model I think) I looked at had a dt466 and an at545. Somehow the steel adapter between the flexplate and flywheel cracked and was making noise. He tried to fix it but lost interest half way through the project and tried to sell it as is. I'm almost positive what the adapter bolted to was a flywheel, it was thick like one, and had the a dozen or so holes around the perimeter. It was just really greasy/dirty so I couldn't tell if it ground like a flywheel should be.
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06-22-2015, 02:10 PM
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#16
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NUNYA
Posts: 4,236
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: 3800
Engine: DT408, AT545
Rated Cap: 23 500 gvw
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
I very well could be.
I know one of the busses(1990 model I think) I looked at had a dt466 and an at545. Somehow the steel adapter between the flexplate and flywheel cracked and was making noise. He tried to fix it but lost interest half way through the project and tried to sell it as is. I'm almost positive what the adapter bolted to was a flywheel, it was thick like one, and had the a dozen or so holes around the perimeter. It was just really greasy/dirty so I couldn't tell if it ground like a flywheel should be.
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We can only hope.
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