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Old 02-23-2017, 08:33 AM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Year: 1990
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Air Ride Front Springs.

I know the idea of air-bagging the front of a bus using air-helper springs has been kicked around alot here. Yet I have not been able to find anyone that has done it. I have decided to take the plunge and pull a few leaves from my front spring packs, then add some bags and control valves. My questions- 1: Has anyone here had FIRST HAND experience with this? 2: How many springs/leaves are currently on YOUR buses? Right now, my bus (1990 BB TC1000). Has rear bags already, and about a 6 in thick spring pack in the front. Each side has 8 leaves. (seems excessive). The front of this thing rides like a tank, the rear is pretty nice though..

Thanks Y'all

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Old 02-23-2017, 11:33 AM   #2
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I will be watching your progress!

my front axle is so heavy i'd like to add a helper spring or an airbag. the back ride is way to stiff. i need about 10k lbs more in the back to smooth it out.

here is an old thread with some info i found out when looking into it professionally.

natster is a reputable old head that doesn't post anymore, but i believe most anything he'd say about the topic.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/be...ide-11217.html

good luck and post pics
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:55 AM   #3
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Vlad shows some pictures on his thread of how he added bags to his front suspension. I don't recall now whether he made any change to the springs or simply added bags. This is the only example I recall reading on skoolie.net.

I've chatted a little bit with somebody.. Matt I think was his name.. at Best Deal Springs in Payson, UT. I don't recall exactly where you're at but it seems like it was kinda-sorta near Payson, like within a few hours maybe. Anyway I talked with him about modifying a Nissan NV3500 passenger van rear suspension to remove a leaf, re-arch the springs to keep the same ride height, and add bags for load carrying when needed. He had some good ideas, their price seemed fairly reasonable, and were willing to do as much or as little of the labor as I wanted them to do. They do heavy truck stuff also.
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:22 PM   #4
Bus Nut
 
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Best Deal.

I have used Best Deal lots of times for other projects. I drive past Payson everyday. Im sure i will employ them and their knowledge once i get a better idea of what I'm wanting to do...
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:09 PM   #5
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Ahh, so the tables are turned: I should be asking you for advice! Do keep us updated on what you end up doing. I haven't made the drive to Payson to visit them with my van yet. If there were some way of guaranteeing that it will ride as smooth as I imagine/wish for it to, I'd have already had them do the work! Sooner or later I'll reach the point of "well, there's only one way to find out" and just do it.

IIRC my bus has only one leaf on each side in the front, but it's most of an inch thick. I'll get measurements and pictures if you like. The front axle I think is rated for 13,200 pounds; the engine is in the rear on this rig.

It does seem like your six-inch thick pack might be a lot. Does yours have the engine in front?
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Old 02-24-2017, 06:15 AM   #6
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I stopped in at Best Deal yesterday on my way home armed with little info, yet seeking much. Anyway, there are a couple of options, they didn't seem too turned off by my plan and could not see any reasons it wouldn't work. They said Bluebird uses a single spring in the fronts of their busses that have the Airtek system. Its just one very thick, very arched tapered leaf, add a helper bag and you're good to go. Once it stops snowing here for more than a day I will climb under the bus for some measurements......
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:14 AM   #7
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I removed nearly half of the leaves in my rear springs and added shocks (they had none in 1946). An unloaded (to max) skoolie usually rides really harsh as they are sprung for that max weight. Had to add to the front rate due to the Cummins being about 350 pounds heavier than the original six-banger.

Never liked the ride of air-only, but the helper bags are pretty nice. Just no place for them on mine.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
I removed nearly half of the leaves in my rear springs and added shocks (they had none in 1946). An unloaded (to max) skoolie usually rides really harsh as they are sprung for that max weight.
Harsh doesn't begin to describe it. My dash panel bounces an inch when I hit a crack in the road.
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:49 AM   #9
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The big truck crowd does the single leaf thing often. If you google you'll find installs of kits from places like 12 Gauge Customs.

I'm not 100% sold on the single leaf deal myself. Might work on a lightly loaded show truck, but a fully loaded bus? Hate to figure out the leaf is too flimsy when I make a panic stop and twist front axle.

Workhorse Custom chassis engineered an add-on air suspension for their motorhome chassis a few years back, Stabil-Air. It had 1 1/2 leaves, and an additional strut/rod to control rotation.

It's the top image in the picture attached. (Best picture I could find to attach. very little info online about it.)
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StabilAirFront[1].jpg  
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:09 PM   #10
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Update:

I tore into the front of the BlueBird to take some measurements over the weekend. I have decided to not replace any springs yet. My plan as of right now is to remove the Bottom 5 springs leaving the top 4. This leaves me with the ideal amount of room for my bags to mount between the frame and leaves. I bought bags that compress to 2.8 inches, and expand to 9.5 tall, 7 inch diameter. This should give me plenty of range and lift. I am hoping the top 4 springs are not too sagged and that the air bags won't have to work harder than they need to. This is something I won't really know until its all installed, but it is likely i will need to re-arch them, or if it comes to that, I will replace them with one or two thicker tapered leaves. And to those whom have never removed a bus tire, DON'T its not fun!!
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:13 PM   #11
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I cant imagine a single leaf... maybe the sporimngs are worn out in my DEV bus? but whemn I hit a GOOD size bump in the road I sweat the suspension hits the stops and I got a "kawang!!" thats rather loud.. and I feel it in the wheel too... if I had less leaves seems id be getting that alot more? and ive got new heavy duty school bus shocks on the front of it..

or are you talking a single leaf with helper bags?
-Christopher
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:40 PM   #12
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Single leaf with bags.

Starting with a 2 or 3 leaf setup, remove 1 or 2 leaves to let the softer riding bags take the load of the removed leaves.

But OP is starting with 9 leaves, doesn't have to go down to just 1.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:13 AM   #13
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Calm down fellas. When I am saying I'd go down to one or two springs I am meaning that if I change the entire leaf-pack for new springs. I went to the local heavy-duty spring place and talked to them about this. The showed me what the new Blue-Birds are doing; Its either 2 heavy leaves, or one leaf with an air bag. I believe they were called a AIRTEK and SOFTEK systems. The Airtek (single spring with bag) had a very thick (over an inch) tapered spring with a very strange arch. If my plan of dropping the lower 5 out of mine doesn't work, I will likely go this route as long as I can work with the arch and length. Id like to add a PanHard in there too, but that might be overkill. So the last post is correct, I'm starting with 9 and will go down to 3-4. Also, I received my bags in the mail yesterday, they are not as big in diameter as claimed, so I will likely have to run higher pressures than I previously calculated, OR switch to some fatter bags...... Now I'm waiting for the Utah snow to melt....again...
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Old 03-14-2017, 12:14 PM   #14
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Update, again....

Hi folks. I got my new bags the other day, and they were much smaller diameter than advertised, but I tried them anyway.... lets just say 150psi in them and they still couldn't lift the bus...... So, I ordered some much bigger bags that by my calculations, would need about 45-50 psi to lift the bus. Only problem is that I am needing to get more creative on mounting them due to the lack of room. I have it mostly figured out though. I pulled the bottom 5 leaf springs out of the spring pack leaving me with 4. For a trial run I kinda wedged a bag about where I felt safe and hit the hose to it; low and behold; it started lifting, I checked the pressure= right at 40 psi. I must be smarts at the maths!!! Now I just need to mount them, hook up some leveling valves, and I should be good to go! I will post again when I have more info, I will try to remember some photos as well..
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I cant imagine a single leaf... maybe the sporimngs are worn out in my DEV bus? but whemn I hit a GOOD size bump in the road I sweat the suspension hits the stops and I got a "kawang!!" thats rather loud.. and I feel it in the wheel too...
Another downside to those thick single leaf springs that hasn't been mentioned yet is redundancy.

If you happen to break a single spring in a set you'll have a good opportunity to limp to a service station.

I have a friend who works at a local heavy duty truck shop. He had a service call last summer for a guy who had a single leaf break on the left side while driving on the highway. All the steering components were taken out, since that single leaf keeps the axle aligned. Yikes..
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDR76 View Post
Hi folks. I got my new bags the other day, and they were much smaller diameter than advertised, but I tried them anyway.... lets just say 150psi in them and they still couldn't lift the bus...... So, I ordered some much bigger bags that by my calculations, would need about 45-50 psi to lift the bus. Only problem is that I am needing to get more creative on mounting them due to the lack of room. I have it mostly figured out though. I pulled the bottom 5 leaf springs out of the spring pack leaving me with 4. For a trial run I kinda wedged a bag about where I felt safe and hit the hose to it; low and behold; it started lifting, I checked the pressure= right at 40 psi. I must be smarts at the maths!!! Now I just need to mount them, hook up some leveling valves, and I should be good to go! I will post again when I have more info, I will try to remember some photos as well..
Need some pics here for sure. Any updates on this?

My bus is rear air ride, with air seat. My front is harshly sprung and sits high even. I'd like to go the route you have and not only slightly lower the front, but add "plushness" of course. Front is mega harsh. My bus definitely needs some shocks, and I know those would help, but I'd like to reduce the rate along with it. Good dampers with a lower rate would be a world of difference. Air springs just absorbs so much harshness also.

Let me know. I'm wanting to get into this.
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