allison transmission differences

[dan-fox]

PTFE = Polytetrafluoroethylene = Teflon, if that helps.

[cadillackid]

What these guys are running on these racing sites vs what your bus puts out is huge..your stock school bus hasn't destroyed its at545 so unless it's abused, that stock 1545 will be fine. Whether the converter bolts up to your flex plate or not is to be determined but the bolt circle on 1545 should be same as 545, you may have an adapter spacer ring in there which you just move over. It bolts on. Use loctite on all your converter bolts..

If I had a 1545 on the way I definitely would have it in my bus soon and not in the garage . The fuel savings alone will likely be at least 5% running a lockup converter..
christipher

[Rameses]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

I am looking to know more about allison transmissions.

allison B300R ??
Found some info in 3000 series manual
Is there a list that explains the differences between all these transmissions?
is the 3020 part of these?

Thank you

Later J

I was digging around for more info on the B300R and found this wiki for the model bus you bought... https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Daim...merica_SLF_200

It has links with a little bit of basic info on your engine and transmission. (I think all of the info on the transmission was already covered in the link Christopher posted.)

Under the "Operators" tab, you can find a link for a page on High Point Transit. They have some info on their fleet on there.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by turf

Thanks Booyah, but i'm waiting for you to show me up. good luck on your own auction.

Well I didn't get it. $1,220 and an 11 hour drive round trip was just too much for me. I'm still amazed that you got yours for $520.

On a side note, after I lost the auction for the 1545(bid it to 1000) I just won an mt643 at an auction for 200 bucks, a spicer auxiliary trans for 500(for overdrive purposes), and a diesel genset for 100. So, skoolie upgrades will continue .

[turf]

glad to hear of the new trans score! and a great big thanks to Joeblack, who's thread i completely hijacked.

I'm off to arizona today to collect the AT1545.

[Rusty]

Nothing is as soothing as piece-of-mind that you guys did your homework and hunted-down the trans to make your rigs shine.

Take pictures of the swaps, document your trials and tribulations for mounts and linkages.

I'm still stuck on .60 x2 OD. Almost as nice as a 2-speed transaxle.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Nothing is as soothing as piece-of-mind that you guys did your homework and hunted-down the trans to make your rigs shine.

Take pictures of the swaps, document your trials and tribulations for mounts and linkages.

I'm still stuck on .60 x2 OD. Almost as nice as a 2-speed transaxle.

thats why I ended up just ponying up for the upgrade allison swap to install a 6 speed.
-Christopher

[Rameses]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

I am looking to know more about allison transmissions.

allison B300R ??
Found some info in 3000 series manual
Is there a list that explains the differences between all these transmissions?
is the 3020 part of these?

Thank you

Later J

Okay, here's the answer from the Allison dealer...


B300 doesn't have a provision to attach a PTO, and it has a much more shallow pan.

Other than that, they're the same.


Also because yours has the B suffix it's equipped with a retarder. I picked up a bunch of Allison brochures while I was there, and the one on retarders said that for city driving the retarder is capable of bringing the vehicle nearly to a stop and service brakes only have to be used to completely stop the bus. Pretty amazing.

[joeblack5]

Thanks Rameses , that is cool, will see how many speeds this one has 4,5 or 6.
The city transit we road on yesterday had a retarder also, pretty neat. Not sure if it is all that useful for our application.
Wonder how much extra stuff is involved in the retarder and how much added complexity? Does the retarder has its own cooling system?

Shallow pan, that would make sense for a super low floor bus.

Turf.. you are welcome, can't learn enough.

I was amazed yesterday how in the transit bus the shift point are so well hidden. It did not have a tach so could not see it either.

Later j

[joeblack5]

here is an overhaul / troubleshoot manual for the allison 6 / 7 speed transmission .
the link was slow for me but it worked.

http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-9-2320-312-24-3.pdf

later j

[Tango]

Retarders are really appreciated if you drive many hills and/or mountain roads. Wish I had one.

[cadillackid]

Can you fit one on your 2200? Or does it interfere with the drum ?
Christopher

[Tango]

I am really squeezed for space under there (and everywhere else on this rig). In fact, I had to chop out the main frame crossmember and build a new one a couple of inches back just to fit the driveline brake.

[NathanRatPatrol]

just found this thread. great info! I would like to upgrade my 545 to something with a lockup, if not overdrive as well. Anyone have suggestions on ease/cost/availability? 28' Bluebird TC2000fe, Cummins 5.9, 4.33 rear gears.
Cheers!
Nathan

[Tango]

If you are thinking about a swap...go for all the bells and whistles you can afford. Full lockup, 6 speeds. You might even find one with a retarder attached. There are plenty of 5 & 6 speed Allison 2000 series trannies around these days. You can find them on Ebay from $500 bucks to $2500. New from the factory they are nearly 10 grand.

Just make sure the bell housing and splines match what you want to stuff it into.

And don't forget the added cost of peripherals such as the shifter, dipstick and such. Those do NOT come from Allison and may or may not be included in the tranny price.

The other big issue is getting the new trans to play nice to your engine. As I understand, only the Gen5 transmissions can talk to a mechanical motor without a lot of exotic hardware & software. The Cadillac Kid here can spell out what that takes. Me, I go for as all mechanical as possible.

Root around and let us know what you find/decide. Best of luck.

[PeteinSF]

I know this is an old thread, but it seems on topic...


Two questions about swapping physically similar transmissions:



1) Can an Allison 1000 be easily swapped in from a bus with a 2500?
2) Can a newer (2006+) 2500 be swapped in to a bus with an older 2500.


I am assuming they would bolt up OK but am curious about controller/software issues that may arise. If a 1000 swap is indeed possible, is there a specific 1000 to look for?

[cadillackid]

physically, a 1000 with an SAE3 bell and tail are basiically the same as a 2500. when it comes to bolt up.. now there are some differences inside..



the 5th gear (1st OD) on 2000 is 0.74, the 5th on a 1000 is 0.71
2006 and newer 6th is 0.64 on a 2000 and 0.61 on a 1000.



there are a LOT of duramaxx 1000s floating around out there.. these are not physically the same as a Medium duty.. they have a GMC bell housing on them, the Medium duty has an SAE3 bell.



Defero, Suncoast, and maye others build 1000s with SAE3 bell.. as to where to buy one? 6 of one half dozen another.. you can read stories of people having good and bad luck with many suppliers.. I have a Suncoast and have Zero issues with it at about 20 months and 30,000 miles in. one person i know got a defero and had to send it back and get it replaced because of an issue..



electronically going from pre 06 to post 06 there are differences.. you go from GEN3 TCM's to GEN4.. the connectors are different.. GEN3 uses 2 connectors.. GEN4 uses a single 80 pin.. so you'll need a new wiring harness, and a new TCM... my GEN4 TCM is set up to talk J1939 throttle and works well.. if a bus already has a gen3 2000 and you go to gen4 then its equipped with J1939 throttle..

-Christopher

[PeteinSF]

Great info Chris,


It seems to me that a Gen3 motor with a Gen4 trans would be a "hobbyist" configuration (I sort of like those types of solutions) but I am not sure I would want to have that setup if others need to support it. (mechanics on the road) unless you think otherwise (is switching to J1939 not a big deal?)



Would swapping in Gen4 engine controls and harness (to match) be a viable (reasonable) option?

[cadillackid]

J1939 is J1939. your engine already sends it to the current TCM.. a Gen 4 Medium duty TCM reads the same J1939 stream.. whether Navistar ships any more PGNs in later years or not I dont know.. I know that on my year and engine they dont ship the cruise setpoint info which from what i understand none of them did.. or may still not.. allison wants it to help determine your desired speed.. but its not required.. the transmission operates independently on these pre Maxxforce engine.. there is no defueling by the engine during shifts or such..



it reads the throttle, engine load, engine RPM, and if sent will read the cruise info.. the allison 4th gen will run with nothing more than a throttle input... engine load helps it know how hard the engine is working.. thats sent in any of the E engines that have the J1939 connector..



im running a year 2000 engine with a year 2009 TCM on mine.. the program code in it is a standard Medium duty with J1939 throttle.
-Christopher