AT1545 thread

[Booyah45828]

I had my doubts about those spacers working, too much torsional vibration and flex in that situation for something like those to work. The bolts are all sheared off, the 4 on the ground are to hold on the inspection cover. Loctite wouldn't have mattered in this situation, it's a design issue.

Either make a spacer that is similar to what was originally used, or use spacers like what you had but have them at 2" in diameter. Whatever you use, it has to have a large footprint on the flywheel to prevent flex.

Before you order anything, verify that the modulator cable is working correctly. If it is, pull out your current governor and see if there is a part number on it. Verify what you currently have, then we can figure the next plan of action.

[cadillackid]

yes yes yes on the modulator cable!! it should be the first thing checked for shift points.

[turf]

thanks guys.

i believe the modulator cable is working fine. i can see it move with the pedal. like i said earlier, there is a bit of sheath damage on it near the throttle link, but it appears to still work fine.
the modulator will have to come off to get the the TC so i will be sure to double check its removal and reinstall.
i also saw some redbyrd videos on youtube last night and i heard chris's shifts on his bad 545.
with out looking it up, is there a correct amount of movement on the cable? i don't think i've seen a spec for it.

its a big 10-4 on the bolts being sheared off in the TC. the TC spins freely thru the view box. there is a lot of metal shavings and only 5 of the spacers. i suspect one went, and the rest broke grinding up the first one.

we went from 90s to 50s here in the last few days. tomorrow should be in the 70's. so my plan is to try and get it apart tomorrow. governor too.

right now, a few things have crossed my mind.
how much is a new 545?
how much is a 643?
wondering what the inside of that bell housing looks like.

a couple of things to toss out there.

the failure happened while i was turning. i don't know it that puts a bind on the tight fit of the hub/TC. maybe there is still a clearance issue.

fingers crossed and we'll see tomorrow.

[Booyah45828]

Modulator cable should be adjusted with the engine throttle at wide open. Next you adjust the modulator cable so there is only about an 1/8 inch of slack. You don't want it tight(that will ruin the cable/sheathing) but it needs to be almost tight.

I've never checked for total travel, I've never had an issue where I suspected it as an issue.

As far as at545's go, rebuilt ones can be had for 1500 bucks, with a 500 dollar core charge. With used one being a few hundred to free.

Mt 643 is usually 2000-2500 rebuilt, with a core charge of about 1000. Used ones could be anywhere from 500-1500.

I bought a used mt643 in july for 600 bucks from a auto salvage auction. I bought it as-is so I have no idea on it's condition. I imagine I'll have to do the same stuff you've done, along with making a mount for it to stand on as well as shortening the driveshaft. I haven't done anything with it yet, and it is still sitting in the back of the truck with the brownie box and 2 apu's that I bought as well. If you ever get frustrated to the point of punting what you have, let me know, as I might be interested in trading.

I imagine the fault happening while turning was just a coincidence.

[cadillackid]

Plus 1 on booyah description of modulator cable adjustment ..

On a 545 the shift points are raised the more the cable pulls out. If it's not pulling out enough then you get really low shifts and low line pressure.

My redbyrd bad 545 had an electric modulator so those probably aren't good ones to watch.
I had my dev with a cable 545 at a bus rally this weekend, I'll video my shifts when I drive it over to the storage unit. I adjusted its shift cable last year.
Christopher

[turf]

aye... i have been looking at the shifter cable and not the modulator cable. next time i go out i will be sure to look at the modulator cable. maybe that has been the problem.

i got the governor out and it's number 461 - that should be the correct one. diesel 24-2800 rpms.

[cadillackid]

turf, here is a video of me driving the DEV bus for a few minutes.. and it shows the different shifting with various throttle positions..

this one is cable-actuated, not electric like the redbyrd was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtsS...m-upload_owner

-Christopher

[Tootalltechie]

Originally Posted by turf

thanks guys.

i believe the modulator cable is working fine. i can see it move with the pedal. like i said earlier, there is a bit of sheath damage on it near the throttle link, but it appears to still work fine.
the modulator will have to come off to get the the TC so i will be sure to double check its removal and reinstall.
i also saw some redbyrd videos on youtube last night and i heard chris's shifts on his bad 545.
with out looking it up, is there a correct amount of movement on the cable? i don't think i've seen a spec for it.

its a big 10-4 on the bolts being sheared off in the TC. the TC spins freely thru the view box. there is a lot of metal shavings and only 5 of the spacers. i suspect one went, and the rest broke grinding up the first one.

we went from 90s to 50s here in the last few days. tomorrow should be in the 70's. so my plan is to try and get it apart tomorrow. governor too.

right now, a few things have crossed my mind.
how much is a new 545?
how much is a 643?
wondering what the inside of that bell housing looks like.

a couple of things to toss out there.

the failure happened while i was turning. i don't know it that puts a bind on the tight fit of the hub/TC. maybe there is still a clearance issue.

fingers crossed and we'll see tomorrow.

What grade of bolts did you use?

Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk

[turf]

i got the transmission back off. separated from the block



and then out from under. you got to push it over the axle, tilt it down and slide it out. it isn't pretty when i do it alone.



the bolts sheared off in the torque converter



and there was a bit of damage on the flywheel, holes wallered out and some twisting.


all the bolts that sheared were a 10mm hex bolts rated at 10.9. i think that's the same as SAE grade 8.



the rest of the damage just looks like those spacers bounced around a bit.



so i went back to the machine shop. they are going to fix the Torque converter studs, flatten out the flywheel and make a ring spacer and attach it to the flywheel.

there didnt seem to be any other contact or damage that i have seen not attributed to the broken parts.

[cadillackid]

the ring spacer will bolt to the flywheel not be welded, correct? (so you can get it put together correctly..)..
-Christopher

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

is spinning a medium duty 5.9 at 3000 rpm advisable? Due to the engine pulley and accessory pulley sizes will the drive ratio cause you to over-speed any of your accessories at an engine speed of 3000 rpm?
-christopher

3K is too many RPM's.






.

[turf]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the ring spacer will bolt to the flywheel not be welded, correct? (so you can get it put together correctly..)..
-Christopher

i talked to the shop owner about welding it and and im not sure how the conversation ended. i believe the spacer will be tacked on to the flywheel. he can't balance the flywheel and thought it best not to add to much material. the spacer will have to be tacked on just to drill the holes in the spacer, so i said to leave it like that.

thanks Rusty for the info. i have the right transissiom governor, so i think the problem had to be the modulator cable. i have some time waiting onthe machine shop to check that cable out.

[cadillackid]

how are you going to put it together if its tacked on? the spacer needs to mount to the converter and then when you install, then the spacer gets mounted to the flywheel.. or are you using a single bolt pattern?
-Christopher

[turf]

its a single bolt pattern.
if you look back at the pic of the flywheel, the inner ring of holes are new and match the torque convertor lugs.

from the access hole on the other side, each bolt will go in to the flexplate, ringspacer and the torque convertor lug.

we tacked the first spacers just so they would stay in place blind. same thing again here, since its all buttoned up when you insert those bolts...

[cadillackid]

that makes sense.. I had forgotten you drilled the flexplate.. still seems wierd that all those bolts broke.. ive put together some engines with a Lot more torque than that cummins and the only only had 3 torque converter bolts and didnt bust them.. those spacers must have cocked slightly and caused the snap..

hardened bolts are stronger but will tend to break whereas grade 5 bolts have more tendency to bend before snapping..

when I think about how the original (on mine) was put together, the bolts didnt have much distance at all that they had to "span".. on the converter to ring the ring itself was just the metal thickness and then 6 bolts.. on the engine side I had 6 studs. and that ring ..nuts and just the thickness of the metal..

so it seems imperative that on the spacer ring that the holes are drilled so that the bolts fit in really snug. and that with the ring on the converter those no chance that there could be a spot where the flywheel hole edge "protrudes" into the area that the hole in the spacer ring uses.. ie possibly it created a "lip" effect .. cocked the bolt just enough to snap it off..


just some thoughts...
-Christopher

[Booyah45828]

I'm lost here, what are you doing for the spacers? The current ones you have will not work. There is too much flex involved in that small of a footprint on the flexplate end. Either make the spacers with a 2" or larger base on the flexplate end, or get a ring similar to what came off originally(I'd prefer the ring because that would provide the ultimate rigidity). If you have the old ring, that shuld be able to be machined down on a lathe and rewelded. Then have someplace balance that and you should be golden.

[turf]

the machine shop is making a ring the same thickness as the spacers were, and tacking it to the flywheel.

they are unable to balance it.

they are also milling out the broken studs in the TC. i dont know it those holes will remain the same or not. he said they usually get them out and then pull the threads.

i probably crossed threaded one. that may have been my whole issue.

what do i do about balancing?

snow is starting to fly here and i'm losing time with it apart. i need to finish this.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by turf

the machine shop is making a ring the same thickness as the spacers were, and tacking it to the flywheel.

they are unable to balance it.

they are also milling out the broken studs in the TC. i dont know it those holes will remain the same or not. he said they usually get them out and then pull the threads.

i probably crossed threaded one. that may have been my whole issue.

what do i do about balancing?

snow is starting to fly here and i'm losing time with it apart. i need to finish this.

turf,

Sorry to hear about your woes. Skimmed the post--only thing I can think of is I see at545 adapters from time to time on ebay, perhaps mod one of these?

ebay

this?

When I did FJ40 conversion, I used Advance Adapters. Maybe give them a call and ask for a direction.

Wish i could be more help.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by turf

the machine shop is making a ring the same thickness as the spacers were, and tacking it to the flywheel.

they are unable to balance it.

they are also milling out the broken studs in the TC. i dont know it those holes will remain the same or not. he said they usually get them out and then pull the threads.

i probably crossed threaded one. that may have been my whole issue.

what do i do about balancing?

snow is starting to fly here and i'm losing time with it apart. i need to finish this.

As far as removing the broken bolts, this is the type situation where I've had success with ez out bits. The bolts shouldn't be jammed in there and should come right out. But if they're handling it, let them make the call.

Balancing it really depends on what they make. I'd have to see it to judge whether it's necessary. The correct way to balance would be to use the same machine they use to balance crankshafts to balance the flywheel. Engine builders will either have one, or have a person that does the balancing for them. Not really sure where you are in CO, so I can't help you past that.

A quick method that you could use would be similar to that of a lawnmower blade balancing. Watch this so you can get the gist of the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERdMG13-bEM

You basically center the flexplate/spacer on a point and then add/remove metal to get it to level out.

I understand the hurry, but you're already on the 2nd attempt. It'd be nice to get it right instead of doing it over again.

[mmoore6856]

were the bolts bottomed out? all those bolts breaking points to all the bolts being at fault missing lock washer too long of replacement bolts or loose i seen bolts that were only .025 too long give a proper torque reading on a wrench but did not look right .010 feeler gauge confirmed that i had a gap between the bolt head and flywheel. something did not feel right and im glad i checked it out before going any further. they were new bolts but not all bolts were the same length just a bit longer