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Old 10-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #1
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driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison auto

My views and thoughts on driving in the mountains with a FE bus with the 5.9 Allison 545 combo.

I just returned from a 400 mile trip from Mnt City TN south thru Boone via 421 past Winston-Salem, I learned a lot and would like to pass it on for others,since I couldn't find the answers I needed.

Disclaimer:these are my two penny"s and use them as you like.


I was having over heating issues (due to tranny temps climbing as well as coolant temps climbing) not dangerously high but high enough I had to stop and sometimes not continue up mountain's since I have had the bus for the last 6months.

the answers to POINT ONE (1 penny).............................

GOING UPHILL

I asked a few older school bus drivers"how do you drive up this mt, w/o over heating or killing the trans?"

they said (I shorten the stories but this is basic info)"2200 rpm is the magic number,find your speed in each gear at 2200 on flat ground and make that the minimum plus 5 mph for each gear"

I approached the mountain and slowed to about 25mph, shifted down to 2nd and rolled into throttle building boost and held it at 2200/2300 rpm when I hit the rpm i was doing 30 mph and several miles later I was in Boone,N.C. coolant/trans never went above 185 engine and 200 trans (convertor out)

Perfect!!

We continued on following same guidelines I established:

1st gear=15-20mph 2200 rpm
2nd gear=30-35mph 2200 rpm
3rd gear=45-50mph 2200 rpm
4th gear was useless to me since the rolling hills never let me use it with out being below my target rpm, and tranny would slip as boost built and temps would rise,so I drove a gear down,and 50mph.

POINT NUMBER TWO (2nd penny)

GOING DOWNHILL

Heading out of Boone down 421 was the mountain; an evil 6 miles down into N.Wilkesborro

I put tranny into 1st at top of hill and crested at about 10 mph (no lockup convertor)rpm's made tranny shift into 2nd,since I was playing the game of precaution I was nervous and used 30mph as my "set speed" I had to apply the brakes several times and even pulled over and checked brake temps at
a spot between the runaway ramps...cool to touch OK I'm good so we continued on.so I basically coasted hoping the tranny and engine would hold us back

Here is the point

on way back,I climbed the mt with no worries and no temp variation...cool...but I had 2 down hills that worried me.
I crested and rolled by the Eastern Continental Divide sign and knew there was a red light at the bottom of the grade...

I shifted into 1st gear and drove at about 1500 rpm to make the transition from flat to down hill, as I was "driving" down the mountain contemplating how I would approach this light I realized that I was all ready 1/3 way down and still doing 15 mph!!!!
As long as I "drove" not coasted, the tranny held back just fine....so I drove down that incline in 1st gear at 1500/1700 rpm...I feathered throttle to maintain pressure but not rev motor.

I was happy.

The road out of Boone back towards Mt City is a lot steeper with a damn gas station at the bottom.
I "drove" down at 20 mph and 2000rpm,when engine started to creep up I used my left foot to apply the brakes for a split second(2 times total) so I still had throttle pressure applied

Sorry this is so long winded, I hope this helps someone out and gives them an idea or 2...

SIDE NOTE: I AVERAGED 8-1/2->9-1/2 MPG AT THOSE RPM'S

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Old 10-29-2012, 09:40 PM   #2
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

I kinda figured that was why my trans temp got so high coming back from Tenn. I was babying it going up the hills. I still think my trans slips more than it should.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:07 AM   #3
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

That is good info, indeed. Do you know what your rearend ratio is? I have the same powertrain in my TC2000, and my rearend is 4.78:1.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:09 AM   #4
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

after the snow melts I will crawl under and look...
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:24 AM   #5
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Thanks for posting. We are headed to the east coast into the mountains so I will be sure to keep your info in mind. I have a manual tranny so should be a little easier for me, I hope...
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:24 AM   #6
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelinwithus
Thanks for posting. We are headed to the east coast into the mountains so I will be sure to keep your info in mind. I have a manual tranny so should be a little easier for me, I hope...
This is for the 5.9, I have no idea what kinda RPM's the 408 likes or what max rpm's are
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:19 PM   #7
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelinwithus
Thanks for posting. We are headed to the east coast into the mountains so I will be sure to keep your info in mind. I have a manual tranny so should be a little easier for me, I hope...
This is for the 5.9, I have no idea what kinda RPM's the 408 likes or what max rpm's are
It pretty much maxes out at 3000 RPM, Turbo starts spooling at about 2000 RPM. Not sure that spooling is the appropriate terminology there but 2000 RPMs seems to be when it starts the power band (to use 2cycle dirt bike terminology). Once we get into the mountains I will do some experimenting and let you know how it goes. We have a week or two before we will be in the mountains though.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:55 PM   #8
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Thanks for the info... Me being simple minded I thought put it in drive (4th) an go. unless I wanted to go faster up hill then pull down into the lower gears. And heading down th hill pull it down and let the engine help brake. Ya just save my butt again thanks ya'll...
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:30 PM   #9
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

It's just a big learning game for all of us I'm glad it help'd
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Old 12-25-2012, 06:28 PM   #10
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil
after the snow melts I will crawl under and look...
What RPM's are you spinning at 60MPH?
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #11
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Re: driving in mountains with FE 5.9 cummins and 545 Alison

Don't really know,I have to be in 4th gear to go over 55 @2300rpm....4th gear for me is worthless where I have travelled so far.
it is so "hilly" here that trans starts to get warm going uphill under 2200rpm.
Next year iwe have a trip planned that will put us on flat ground for a good part of trip.
When I have put it into 4th on level ground it will "idle" at about 60mph.....then I have to slow down to be in 3rd for next grade.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:29 PM   #12
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This is all extremely helpful, thank you. We're about to go up trail ridge pass in the rockies. This info could be a lifesaver.
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Old 04-14-2021, 01:06 PM   #13
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I know this is a very old thread, but I’m still trying to perfect my use of the AT545 in my 2000 Blue Bird TC1000 with the Cummins 24-valve 5.9 liter engine.
Shifting down to 3rd and keeping RPMs at 2200-2400 helps on long hills but not all the time. Can/should I shift down to 2nd and slow down more?
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Old 04-14-2021, 01:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTom View Post
I know this is a very old thread, but I’m still trying to perfect my use of the AT545 in my 2000 Blue Bird TC1000 with the Cummins 24-valve 5.9 liter engine.
Shifting down to 3rd and keeping RPMs at 2200-2400 helps on long hills but not all the time. Can/should I shift down to 2nd and slow down more?



when I drove my 1978 Superior cross country.. I CRAWLED up/down the mountains.. it has an AT540 and I did the stab and go method of braking hard to lower down 5 MPH then let the speed come up and stab Hard again.. I ran in 2nd gear at a very slow speed and had no issues with heating up my brakes..



Up hill I got my transmission really hot.. I mean REALLY hot.. so I slowed down from 3rd to second and much lighter throttle which kept my transmission alot cooler..
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Old 04-14-2021, 01:34 PM   #15
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Thanks for that information. Very helpful! I guess it’s just a matter of taking it slow on the uphills. I’ve got the downhill stab braking figured out pretty well.
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Old 04-14-2021, 02:13 PM   #16
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I have had 2 of these in 2 ton trucks over the years and still have one of them. You MUST have a good auxiliary oil cooler on these to keep them cool. The one I sold was in a tow truck with the world famous Detroit Diesel 8.2 NA. I put 185 thousand miles on it towing cars, pickups and motor homes up grades and down. The first thing I did was install a large oil cooler in the front with electric fans on a thermo switch. 2200 rpm was about right. Never overheated. My International has just a cooler with out fans and it does good too. The highest it has ever gotten was 230 degrees converter out going up hwy 58 out of Bakersfield pulling a 37 foot trailer. My gross weight on that trip was 36000 pounds. I think if you will just add some cooling capacity you will be fine. But I’m talking about a large cooler.
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Old 04-14-2021, 02:19 PM   #17
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If you will go with a cooler that has electric fans and do it before the radiator heat exchanger you can install it under the bus and not add to the heat load of the cooling system.
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