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Old 11-18-2018, 07:44 PM   #41
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
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Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
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Having some experience with the older 2-stoke Detroits, they'll run on darn near anything you put in the tank. We never worried about it as long as it was "diesel fuel", we ran farm fuel, or whatever truck stop or gas station blend we put in it. Our mechanic even dropped in a quart of transmission fluid in each tank to "lubricate the pump and injectors" (not on a regular basis, though. Probably to disguise the fact we were using farm fuel in it).


In your case, since you are not planning on any wintertime operations at all, I would simply fill the tanks (condensation mitigation), check the antifreeze freezing point (adjust as necessary), and let her sit. If anything, fuel treatment for algae and microbe growth (and even for just a few months, this may be overkill), anti-gel is only necessary if you plan to start/run/drive during very cold weather.


Runaway 2-strokes are a somewhat uncommon thing but many of these engines had an emergency shut off that would block airflow to the engine. See if yours does. If not, a thick, heavy blanket over the air intake will serve the same purpose.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:04 PM   #42
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 198
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
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Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Having some experience with the older 2-stoke Detroits, they'll run on darn near anything you put in the tank. We never worried about it as long as it was "diesel fuel", we ran farm fuel, or whatever truck stop or gas station blend we put in it. Our mechanic even dropped in a quart of transmission fluid in each tank to "lubricate the pump and injectors" (not on a regular basis, though. Probably to disguise the fact we were using farm fuel in it).


In your case, since you are not planning on any wintertime operations at all, I would simply fill the tanks (condensation mitigation), check the antifreeze freezing point (adjust as necessary), and let her sit. If anything, fuel treatment for algae and microbe growth (and even for just a few months, this may be overkill), anti-gel is only necessary if you plan to start/run/drive during very cold weather.


Runaway 2-strokes are a somewhat uncommon thing but many of these engines had an emergency shut off that would block airflow to the engine. See if yours does. If not, a thick, heavy blanket over the air intake will serve the same purpose.
Thank you for your feedback!! Ours has the emergency shut off button. The winter here usually finishes late February early March. If I plan on storing her starting December would i still need the algae treatment, do I need to run the engine if I put some of this in the diesel or is it okay to just throw some in the tank and that's it? I pretty much just parked her and don't wanna turn her on and drive again till end of February or early March
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:36 PM   #43
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
Thank you for your feedback!! Ours has the emergency shut off button. The winter here usually finishes late February early March. If I plan on storing her starting December would i still need the algae treatment, do I need to run the engine if I put some of this in the diesel or is it okay to just throw some in the tank and that's it? I pretty much just parked her and don't wanna turn her on and drive again till end of February or early March

I'd drop in the fuel treatment next chance you get ... drive it to where you're spending winter, and it'll be mixed in when you get there. If you've already parked for the winter, and plan to head out in 2-3 months, I wouldn't worry too much about it. This is more for longer term storage than a 2-3 month stay.


I'd test that emergency shut off just to make sure it works. Hopefully you'll never need it...
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:54 PM   #44
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
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Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
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Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Just from the tone of your questions regarding block heaters I would recommend a pro once again. Someone who knows that engine. You may already have one installed but have you looked?

The heater goes into a hole where a frost plug is now, an accessible one at that. Likely your antifreeze will have to be drained to do this properly and then refilled. Are you sure you know how to do that?
You would do well to start reading these threads heavily if you intend to remain a happy bus owner.
Those members here that own a bus with your engine etc are and can be more than helpful but you have to gain some more understanding on your own. All your questions haave been covered here umpteen times if you care to research.


John
Haha funny enough the engine shut off works because when I took her to get new wheels, when I picked her up she wouldn't turned on, I freaked out for about 20 minutes trying to figure out what it was. Thankfully they called one of the guys that worked on her and he said the bus wasn't wanting to turn off on him and so he saw this engine shut off button and pressed it. I was able to pull that lever back and the bus started. I guess I can check if that button works without turning on the engine again, just to make sure it engages?

From what others told me these buses or engines cannot be turned on and turned off right away they have to properly heat up and build air. The guy was dumb but at least he came clean and I was able to get her up and running.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:56 AM   #45
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
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Year: 2002
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Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
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Likely that the fuel stop solenoid requires air pressure to function.

Once started you have to wait for air pressure to build before you can shut down normally.

You can "manually" stop the engine by using the emergency stop to starve the engine of air or manually close the injector rack to starve it of fuel.
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:25 PM   #46
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
1 So I don't ever plan on turning her on or driving her all winter long and if I do for some reason I wouldn't unless the temperature is above 45 degrees. I turned her on yesterday it was 48 degrees and she turned right on, no problem, drove her for about 40 minutes and filled her up with fresh diesel. It took about 40 minutes to get her temperature up to almost 180 (she usually cruises at 180-190 degrees)

2 Would I still need additives or these heaters? Ive read getting a pan heater, a block heater and some people have even told me to get one of those portable gas forced air heaters mechanics use to work outside and just point it towards the bus engine area for a good while. (Is that even safe, would it actually heat the insides and coolant etc, I saw these heaters for like 100 bucks in home Depot).
1 It would not hurt it to start is below 40F But there will be much less wear on the engine and the starter if you plug in a heater.. say 20 min before you go to start it.
Ever notice all the older semis in the truck stops how they NEVER shut off their engines? That is because they lasted longer that way. Many of the newer The newer trucks have diesel fueled heaters so that while the driver sleep it can be warm and quiet.
FYI most coolant block heaters pull around 600-1000 watts. Plugging in more than 5 hours is just wasteful I think.

2 are you referring to the fuel additives? Even if it jelled up at 15F it would unjell when it warms back up. Wouldn't hurt a thing.
Just remember a full tank has very little inner tank surface open to the air. Always better to keep a full tank of Diesel. It doesn't go bad like gasoline.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:44 PM   #47
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: MO
Posts: 198
Year: 1978
Engine: Detroit 6-71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekanic View Post
1 It would not hurt it to start is below 40F But there will be much less wear on the engine and the starter if you plug in a heater.. say 20 min before you go to start it.
Ever notice all the older semis in the truck stops how they NEVER shut off their engines? That is because they lasted longer that way. Many of the newer The newer trucks have diesel fueled heaters so that while the driver sleep it can be warm and quiet.
FYI most coolant block heaters pull around 600-1000 watts. Plugging in more than 5 hours is just wasteful I think.

2 are you referring to the fuel additives? Even if it jelled up at 15F it would unjell when it warms back up. Wouldn't hurt a thing.
Just remember a full tank has very little inner tank surface open to the air. Always better to keep a full tank of Diesel. It doesn't go bad like gasoline.
Thank you so much for your feedback! I am very happy to have so many great people contribute on this thread, I learned a lot and can now feel pretty confident this beat will rise back up come spring
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:30 AM   #48
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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I am coming into this discussion at the end so I don't know how valuable my input might be.

First off, if you don't intend to drive it anywhere don't start the engine. 2-cycle engines are a lot more sensitive to fuel washing past the rings if the engine doesn't get properly warmed up. Unburnt fuel washing past the rings can cause an oil ring to seize and wreck a cylinder liner. The diluted fuel also loses it's lubricity and can cause more issues in bearings. If you feel the need to run the bus, take it out on the road and run it 100 miles or so. By that time it will have sent enough excess fuel back to the tank to get it all warmed up so the addition of some fuel conditioner will actually mix in the tank and do what it is supposed to be doing. Remember the ONLY oil you should be using is a single weight low ash oil like Chevron Delo 100 40wt or a premium oil like Texas Refinery Corp's Pro-Spec DD. https://www.texasrefinery.com/produc...s/pro-spec-dd/ Whichever oil you choose check the oil base number. The higher the base number is the better the oil will be. High base numbers provide much more lubricity.

Second, fill the tank up with fuel and try not get non-bio blended fuel if at all possible. Some of the bio used in blending with diesel have cloud points way above diesel cloud points and can gel the fuel at much warmer temperatures. The addition of a good fuel conditioner will help with that problem. TRC's DZL-PEP with AAT is one of the best fuel conditioners on the market. If you expect it to get really cold then DZL-PEP Artic with AAT is one of the best on the market. If your fuel system is all gelled up the addition of some De-Gel Supreme can fix the problem. https://www.texasrefinery.com/products/fuel-improvers/

Third, there are a lot of dissimilar metals in your engine and cooling system. It is VERY important to make sure the pH is relatively neutral. Too base or too acid and you can end up with metals eating each other up. Your bus should have a water filter. Make sure it is replaced with a new filter with a additive package. It should be hanging down right under the engine room control panel.

Fourth, if your two 8D batteries are in good condition you should never have a problem starting as long as you turn off the battery cut off switch when you park the bus. There is always some sort of parasitic load that will suck a battery down dead if the cut off switch isn't used. Unless you purchase a smart charger that will maintain the battery charge you are apt to boil off the water and fry your batteries.

Fifth, if you think you need an engine pre-heater you may already have one unless it was a CA spe'c bus from southern CA. Most northern CA Crowns and all WA and OR spe'c Crowns came from the factory with a 110-VAC Kim Hotstart engine pre-heater. It was usually mounted with the plug just to the rear of the driver side engine compartment door and just in front of the battery/air intake compartment door. If you don't have a engine pre-heater you will want to get one of these: http://www.kimhotstartheaters.com/pdf/cb-cl_pages.pdf One of the
CB1251XX-000 or
CL1301XX-100 would be more than adequate for your needs. Just be aware that you will need quite a drop cord in order to power up a 25 amp heater.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:26 AM   #49
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,698
Year: 2001
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Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
Haha funny enough the engine shut off works because when I took her to get new wheels, when I picked her up she wouldn't turned on, I freaked out for about 20 minutes trying to figure out what it was. Thankfully they called one of the guys that worked on her and he said the bus wasn't wanting to turn off on him and so he saw this engine shut off button and pressed it. I was able to pull that lever back and the bus started. I guess I can check if that button works without turning on the engine again, just to make sure it engages?

From what others told me these buses or engines cannot be turned on and turned off right away they have to properly heat up and build air. The guy was dumb but at least he came clean and I was able to get her up and running.

Sounds like it does have an emergency cut-off ... does it close the fuel, or the air intake? The concern is that occasionally (fairly rarely) these engines "run-away" because they are sucking and burning oil (usually from a failed supercharger seal or some-such) and cutting the fuel will have no effect. In a case like this, you need to remove the air. With a manual transmission, you can put it in high gear and choke it down with the clutch.


I'm not aware of any reason you can't turn it off right away, unless (as mentioned before) it has an air-operated shut-off which needs a minimum pressure to operate. But as far as the engine itself, start and stop as needed.
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