Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-28-2019, 01:23 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 385
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
FE flatnose or dognose easier to repair?

So I have an FE flatnose bus with a 5.9L Cummins ISB L6, and went to find an oil leak yesterday. I already knew it was coming from the vicinity of the air pump, but didn't know if it was the pump itself or the gasket. It was hiding above the AC compressor, and I hadn't taken the time to look closely yet.


I found it coming from the bottom bolt where the air-pump flange meets the engine front cover. Cleaned it up with citrus engine degreaser, then brake cleaner. Felt confident that it was this spot that was leaking as (1) it was the oiliest, (2) the bolt turned maybe 0.5 turns and oil built up around the edge as it tightened, (3) the only other bolt/seal that had any wet oil was directly behind it, holds the compressor together, and was super-tight; and (4) no oil was above it (hard to tell, because the high-pressure fuel pump is just above the air pump). The oil was dripping down onto the AC pulley and belt, spraying across the lower-front motor-mount and bus-frame crossmember, across the bottom of the oil-pan, and onto the tranny oil-pan, and back from there onto the front-axle.


I pulled off the AC compressor for better access to the air-pump flange bolt, and better line-of-sight to the problem areas. I already tightened all the motor's oil-pan bolts about 0.5 turns last summer and ended an oil seep from that gasket, so I think I just did the same for the air-pump gasket.


In the process I found that the new AC compressor was missing a mounting bolt. I was just saying on someone else's thread a few days ago, don't simply assume a "professional" (machine shop rebuilding a head) will do the job correctly! It was "tricky" to get the bolt to slide into the mounting hole, because the pulley was in the way! Mount the bolt the other direction, and it hits the pulley and you can't get a nut on. So just do it the slack way was what the installer did! I wondered why my AC systems didn't work, when the compressor, condenser, and drier were all new-looking and had maintenence stickers with dates from just before I bought it.



So I found a nice bolt with a long shoulder and skinny threads that I pulled off another vehicle I repaired some time before (good quality steel, not HD zinc bolts!), and a matching lock washer and flange nut that worked perfect for the pivot bracket mount.


But to do all that, laying on my back, I had to rotate my body 360° to reach up into the spaces to clean off the grease with a rag, reach the bolts up in the tight spaces they were in, etc. Sometimes my feet stuck out the front, sometimes they were pointed back under the tranny, sometimes my body was directly under the motor with feet sticking out under the entrance door, but mostly they were sticking out towards the driver's side.


It occurred to me then that if this were a dognose bus, I would be absolutely hating this job, as the front axle and tire (and whatever else the suspension throws at you) would be in the way. And as a mechanic, I can attest to the number of vehicles that are like this! Gotta pull a tire to reach through a hole in the motor compartment sidewall or something.


I can climb under and access any part of my motor or tranny and work on them without hindrance.



But then I think that most dognose busses have an International motor in them, and the access to each part of the motor and its accessories is different, anyway, so I guess we are comparing apples to oranges.


The frame rails are still about the same distance apart, so accessing stuff on the side of the motor (like the air pump and PS pump are on mine) will still be tight. But I can reach to any part of my motor without having to stretch, climb a stool, etc. The only thing I see is that I need to remove the front panels and bumper to access the front; that takes under 10 mins, 5 if you're on the ball: some Phillips screws and nuts for the 2 panels, and 4 bolts for the bumper and you're in.


To change the belt is the only thing I see that might be easier on a dognose bus. I have to remove the front panels, plus drain the coolant and remove the turbo intercooler and radiator to get to it. Looks like I gotta do that to swap the alternator, but maybe if I was careful with the belt to keep it on most pulleys (or use a belt install tool), I could swap out the alternator from just sitting on the floor in the inside of the bus.


Standing on a stool, reaching over the engine compartment wall and down into the motor compartment are very stressful to my back. As a mechanic, I hate it. I never have to do that with my bus. I may spend a bit couple more minutes pulling off the front, but then it is right there in front of me. Changing the water pump was then super easy and quick and stress-free. I could see the mating surfaces and clean them with ease, no stress. At this point, I don't see a need to access the front of my motor for years to come (unless maybe the air pump goes out)


So I say I'm glad I have a FE flatnose to work on. I'm glad I don't have to fight with a dognose, the stools and ladders, front axle and tires in the way, etc. I can even change the oil or the fuel filter in the rain!


But like I said, I have a BlueBird with a Cummins. ECCB noted that other FE flatnoses are harder to work on, and he prefers dognose busses.


For future perspective buyers, can anyone else with a FE flatnose chime in on working on their bus? What are the PITA things about it. How about dognoses? Do you have to pull your radiator for access to change a waterpump? Can you get to the bottom stuff on your motor in a dognose without the axle and tires in the way of your hands and feet, or is there simply no need?


We can all say "dognose is better and faster" or "flatnose is better and less stressful". BUT WHY do you say that?


[[first pic is rotated, showing the AC unit still mounted, missing a bolt. the other two show the AC unit unmounted from the bracket to access the air-pump flange bolt]]
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0426191730[1].jpg (178.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 0426191743a[1].jpg (133.7 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 0426191743b[1].jpg (176.3 KB, 10 views)
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2019, 01:35 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
Dog Rescuer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: On the Road
Posts: 577
Year: 2000
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 7.3L 210HP Turbo Diesel T444E
Rated Cap: 28 + 3 wheel chairs.
I have a doghouse bus - with the International 7.3L V8 - it seems pretty easy to work on - though I have only done minor repairs (seal on compressor, serpentine belt, oil change...) It was all very accessible with very little crawling or twerking .
I have worked on a few FE flatness buses with, again, minor issues - but it was certainly more challenging. I found changing the oil on the Bluebird FE flatness a lot more difficult - mainly because the clearance to crawl under was less.

I don't know if that helped - but thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
__________________
- Roger (Dog.Rescuer)
Dog Rescuer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 03:31 PM   #3
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
In my time in the Army I’ve worked on front, rear, and mid engine equipment and vehicles. Of all types of equipment the ones with the most available access had to be the conventional-FE variety. The FE “flatnose” or cab over jobbies were second in access but only because you had the ability to lift the entire cab up and out of the way. On my IH 3800 dog nose I can tilt the hood and do almost any job without complaining about access room or removing a bunch of crap.

That being said, if the comparison is based on how much the vehicle shell and components themselves hinder access the Dognose wins for ease. Tilt a hood and it’s all right there. On a flat nose FE you already mentioned you have to crawl under to see anything. That for me anyway is a pain in the ass that I’m getting too old for haha
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 04:32 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 5,763
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
I don't know.....

IMHO: the FE is overall the most difficult to access for service. There are a few threads on skoolie detailing fan clutch replacement. For me, that would be a job that I would have to pay a shop to do. On my RE I would tackle it myself.

The dognose does have some tight spots but has the overall best access.

Just my $ 0.02
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 10:29 AM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 1,281
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
On a dog nose, there is a slim chance that the compressor would be mounted where yours is. Odds are it would be mounted on the side above the frame rail or on top of the engine.

I do this for a living, and on my bus, I can't think of one thing that would be more difficult to do vs an fe.

From oil and filter changes, to belts, to water pumps, to alternators and compressors, to full blown overhauls.

I simply crank the wheels one way or the other, and I'm essentially standing right next to the part I need to work on. If it comes to it, I can remove the wheel with 4 bolts and 1 spindle nut, and have even more access.

Maybe if I had to change the oil pan? But how often does one do that compared to all the aforementioned.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 11:21 AM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 385
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
On a dog nose, there is a slim chance that the compressor would be mounted where yours is. Odds are it would be mounted on the side above the frame rail or on top of the engine.

I do this for a living, and on my bus, I can't think of one thing that would be more difficult to do vs an fe.

From oil and filter changes, to belts, to water pumps, to alternators and compressors, to full blown overhauls.

I simply crank the wheels one way or the other, and I'm essentially standing right next to the part I need to work on. If it comes to it, I can remove the wheel with 4 bolts and 1 spindle nut, and have even more access.

Maybe if I had to change the oil pan? But how often does one do that compared to all the aforementioned.

Wish I had more time now to respond. More later. Lets keep this thread rolling right now. Seems to me the "little stuff" would be easier on a dog-nose. I don't sweat the little stuff. Changing the air-compressor on mine will be a real PITA, I can tell...heavy parts over your head...but most of the rest is just an extra step or two...



I will need a new oil pan gasket soon. Already leaking and needed tightening. Not the first vehicle I've owned that needed this. I could imagine having disconnect and lift the motor in a dognose to clear the axle for space to drop the pan and clear the pickup tube.



Great reply. Any others want to chime in with real details on this thread? Thanks from all future perspective buyers. I got my bus, like it, and don't mind the shoehorn fit to gain the extra space. Once I change that air-compressor, I will be done with it for the life of the bus (I hope!) and enjoying my added space, clear view of what's in front of me, etc.
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 02:49 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
From a maintenance perspective I will always prefer the dognose. I can live with sacrificing interior space because I’m not going to be full-timing like some do. Major repairs are always going to be easier on the dognose, from a head job to water pump to a liner rebuild to an injector replacement. Unless it’s a Vista haha worst of both worlds they say!
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 03:25 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 8,534
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
I would keep in mind the room you sacrifice by going with a dognose. Seriously consider which would be more beneficial over the life of the vehicles. I think having 4' of extra room inside is something that is utilized everytime you're in the bus. To sacrifice that for ease of working on something that may not need working on or not in the near future. I would not do a bus build if I thought I was going to have to be doing major repairs all the time.
o1marc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 04:15 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
I would keep in mind the room you sacrifice by going with a dognose. Seriously consider which would be more beneficial over the life of the vehicles. I think having 4' of extra room inside is something that is utilized everytime you're in the bus. To sacrifice that for ease of working on something that may not need working on or not in the near future. I would not do a bus build if I thought I was going to have to be doing major repairs all the time.
I mentioned that because it’s what I personally can sacrifice. Like I said people who are going to full time or have families will need as much room as they can get. They benefit from FE or RE busses. Every bus will need “working on” at some point. That could be next year or next month. Mechanical things wear out. It’s the nature of the beast. I like to plan ahead.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 05:17 PM   #10
Bus Nut
 
Dog Rescuer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: On the Road
Posts: 577
Year: 2000
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 7.3L 210HP Turbo Diesel T444E
Rated Cap: 28 + 3 wheel chairs.
I haven’t sacrificed any space. I have 20’ of house space, which is what I was looking to get. The ease of working on the bus - and less engine noise while cruising is a bonus.
I also like having the buffer zone between me and the car who cuts me off. Any choice of engine placement seems to be a preference - but I don’t think there is losing anything going with dog nose / FE / RE - just different things.
__________________
- Roger (Dog.Rescuer)
Dog Rescuer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 10:37 PM   #11
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 19,358
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
The timing cover job on a DT466E would be a huge nightmare in a FE layout.
The injection pump is also a PITA to get at on a mechanical injection FE bus.
I've owned both and the CE is by far easier to repair and service.
Nothing against FE but definitely not as easy to get at the engine. Its like van vs pickup truck but an even more extreme difference due to the entire front bodywork tilting.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 12:00 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 385
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
I went to the BlueBird dealer today to get a mud-flap. Part # changed 3 times, new one doesn't fit. Made for a full-size bus!


Got to get close to a couple of full-sized dog-nose buses parked for maintenance. Been since before I bought my bus 2 years ago that I've been that close to a full-sizer.


First, I have to say I can't begin to compare my bus to them. Mine is a low-rider: a TC1000 Handy-Bus. It has smaller wheels, and a lowered suspension with what seems less up-down travel. I measured my clearance under the front the other day: 17" on the driver's side, and maybe 11"-12" under the front cross-member and oil pan. The rear has similar clearance. The Full-size dog-nose I saw today had what looked like 2' of clearance in the rear.


A TC2000 would likely have the same space between the frame rails but more space below.



I also remembered today what I saw 2 years ago when I was looking to buy my bus. The full-size dog-nose buses I looked at had a full-front-end bonnet that included the wheel wells. You had me confused a bit, Booyah, but now I understand what you mean by "turn the wheels and stand right next to it". The top of the bonnet of the ones I saw today were as high as I am tall. But the motor sits much lower. The ones I saw 2 years ago, however, I don't remember having that close access to the motor (both had International L6s in them). I would have needed a step-stool or small ladder, but I'm a small guy (except in Hawai'i). I don't remember who made them (BB, IH/IN, Thomas).



And I couldn't look under the hood today. So in thinking about all this, I came to believe that the FE flatnoses use the Cummins 5.9L motor for a reason: it is made to fit in the small space (the Dodge Ram pickups, also). The air-compressor is gear-driven right off the crank or cam (I forget, I think cam) so it ain't gonna mount high up on the side or over the top.


What I would like to understand is how an International branded bus could use an International L6-type motor in a flatnose FE. If all that stuff mounts high up on the motor, and as wide as I vaguely remember seeing it in the ones I looked at 2 years ago, how do they shoe-horn that in? Is that why ECCB says they are harder?



In the end, I guess what I should say is that with all the fuss about flatnose FE buses being "harder to work on," I think that is really relative. My first car was a 1976-7-8 Honda Accord (built from 3 junk cars) and changing the spark plugs was simple: Pull the wire right on the top of the motor, spin out the plug, reverse to assemble. Then I got my 1984 Nissan Pickup with its 2.4L L4, and I had to remove the air-filter housing to change the spark plugs. I thought that was ridiculously hard! 2 bolts, and 3 hoses. Now as a tech, I laugh at my old self. Several of my clients have called for a tune-up, and told me they were going to do it themselves, but there was a plastic cover over the motor, so they gave up before trying. Turn the cover-retainers 1/4 turn and it comes off, and there are the sparkplugs! Thanks for the $90/hour job! Steve said he wouldn't attempt the fan-clutch on an FE-flatnose, but it is just removing some extra stuff to get to it (on mine). Hard?



Again, I want to bring up the issue of what model? Just saying flatnose vs. dognose is not enough. Is a mini-van with a traverse motor harder to work on than a full-size pickup, and easier than a full-size van? really depends on the model. Some of those Chevy mini-vans like that are nightmares. My Nissan was sweet. My friend loves his full-size Ford pickup - used to be a Chevy guy. "I don't have to do anything to them except a tune up" he says; but he pays a shop $450 to change the plugs because you have to disconnect the motor-mount, jack the motor, and remove the driver's side fender to get to one of the plugs. He drives his truck into the ground, and buys another. Try to fix it, and it is not merely extra steps, but can be hard.


What is "hard"? For me, disconnecting the motor mount, jacking the motor, and pulling a fender is nothing. Getting the fender to re-install and line-up properly after just a small front-end bump can be real tricky, and if it sits 1/8" too far back, the door will bend it when open. Hard is working on a Ford Ranger: gotta pull the whole transmission to change the clutch slave cylinder. That is real WORK under the truck if you don't have a lift and a tranny-jack and extra hands. Did ball-joints on a 4x4 Ranger. Hours of beating on the spindle with a hammer and chizzel to get it to separate (the guy felt so bad for me, I was like, yea, my job is work. That's why you pay me). Pulled the gas-tank off a Ranger to do a fuel-pump once. The quick-disconnect fuel line had dirt built up in the plastic squeeze-tabs to disconnect it, and it would not disconnect. Meanwhile, I'm a twisted pretzel under the vehicle, straining to reach up between the exhaust, frame rail, and gas tank, trying to see using a mirror. The whole thing had to be torn apart, and a new fuel-line end needed to be secured. Removing the bed would have been more steps, but easier in the long run - 20/20 hindsight.


Or the Toyota Four-runner gas-tank with the rusted solid fuel line fittings. They installed it at the factory with the body off the vehicle, and placed the filler-hose-retainer band facing where the screws to tighten it was convenient for the installer - but from under the vehicle, I could not get to it without very fancy socket sets that most people don't have. Either that or risk tearing the (irreplaceable) filler hose where it mounted to the body, and it was so packed with dirt in there, it was a whole nother project.



Both of these tanks were full of gasoline, also. Those were hard jobs in my opinion. Not because of extra steps, but because of the PITA it was to do some of the steps. Drilling out a bolt is not hard, IMO. Others will call that a nightmare. Drilling out an exhaust bolt broken off in a head from under the vehicle, where the height is just above where you can comfortable reach while lying flat on your back, in a tight space where only a 90° angle-drill will fit, where you can't see the bolt strait-on (yet drilling strait is absolutely critical to not drill into the water-jackets in the aluminum motor-head) - I called that a bit hard; hard on the body and finesse of hand and mind. But it saved me the time from pulling the entire head off.


But change my oil? Harder than a dognose? Too low to crawl under? I'm a caver, so the crawling factor is not a fair comparison. As a caver, my best vacation is your worst nightmare! But changing the oil on my bus is easier than any other vehicle I've ever owned or serviced. No jack required. Seems I would need that stepladder to fill the oil on a dognose. But again, I'm short. And skinny.


I had to change the treadle valve for the air-brakes on my bus within 3 days of driving it. That was a "hard" job because it was accessed from under the bus, way up in a tight spot, and I was doing the pretzel twist dance thing to get my hands in the spots needed to loosen/tighten all the air line nuts for 2-3 hours. Hard on the body. Finesse needed.


Is the treadle valve mounted under the floor on a dognose, or on the firewall in the motor compartment? There's more to the different styles than the motor.


Next will be changing the transmission lines. They feed from the top of the tranny, over the motor mount, and back down to the cooler. and there is a leak in one or both at the high-point where it feeds over the motor mount (I was hoping to tighten the fitting at the top of the tranny, but I just realized it is actually lower). I'm glad the front axle is behind the tranny, but maybe that wouldn't even matter in a dognose....????


Interesting comments from ya'll. More? Seems like I had more to say, but I never got it all fully organized in my head. Maybe more will leak out later and I'll share the thoughts with you then... Been a long week and I'm tired. Aloha to all!
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 01:03 AM   #13
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 8,534
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Ya, it's a bit more work to pull the front off to access removal of the radiator, but everything is fairly exposed at that point.
Here's my DT466 in an International FE.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190403_164223 (2).jpg (85.5 KB, 10 views)
o1marc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 12:57 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 1,281
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Gnome, anytime you have a question about what I say just ask. What I routinely consider obvious isn't always so if the person has never seen it before.

When I said turn the wheels and stand next to it. I meant you could turn the wheels, shimmy your legs between the bumper and tire, and stand with your thighs touching the frame rail. The alternator would be right at your stomach, essentially in the same position as you would be if you were working at it on a work bench. The air compressor is in the same spot on the other side of the engine.

I changed the front brake chambers on my bus a few weeks ago. I lifted the hood, leaned over the tire, removed old chamber, installed new one, cut the shaft to length, installed clevis, adjusted the brakes, and I was back in business. Maybe 30 minutes tops for both sides. Way easier then on a transit type bus.

To check my coolant or power steering, I stand on the tire and look down into it, doing that and changing wiper blades is the only real reason I have to get off the ground.

My treedle valve is on the firewall, so I could essentially stand behind the axle, between the tire and frame and work on that with it a chest height.

I hear you on the pretzel routine you have to do to change one on an fe. We have lifts in the shop so I can stand upright and do it, which makes it easier. The hard part is trying to access the bolts from the top side laying on the seat/doghouse.

When I say harder, I don't mean that it is impossible and you need to avoid it. It's just it takes more effort/time to do things in an FE vs a dog nose.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 03:41 PM   #15
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 380
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
My ic fe300 is easily accessed from the dog house, but anything on the front of the motor is a nightmare. You're supposed to take the bumper and front plate and radiators out to access the front. Took me 2 days to replace the water pump. Needless to say the front stayed on. Love the flat nose look and room but really wish i had got a dog nose to start. May swap this for one eventually.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 08:25 PM   #16
Bus Nut
 
Mountain Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 385
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
Been workin on gettin the apparently 20-year-old original tranny cooler lines out to replace them. They snake from the top of the tranny to the frame rail, over the motor mount, rub against the hot-coolant tubing (which feeds from the back of the head though the frame on the way to the front heater), next to the exhaust manifold, and down to the cooler. Thought it might take an hour. Took 4.



Getting to the fittings on this low-rider bus, sitting cross-legged on the ground behind the tranny and front axle, back to the exhaust pipe, chest to the driveshaft, head twisted 90° to see, I could then easily reach the fittings, and they came loose with no problem.


Getting the hoses out of the spaces they were in without destroying them was another thing. They had become stiff as an oak branch, and you could hear them cracking if you tried to flex them. No wonder they were leaking in the middle, at the high-point next to the hot exhaust. I wanted them intact, to make suitable replacements. (Then I decided now IS the time to update)


That was a "hard job."


I'm adding a cooler
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15860
and it will mount in front of the air-filter, behind the bumper. My tranny oil-temp stays low (like under 140°F - usually 120°F), but that is the pan temp. And who knows if that old gauge is correct (I'll replace it soon enough) and that just does not seem correct to me (but I need to scope it with my heat-sensor one day). With the Allison AT545's non-locking torque converter, going over mountain passes was pushing up the engine temp. Seems advice here on other threads say it's the tranny doing the heating more than the motor.

I'm replacing the sections of hose that feed along the frame-rail with steel tubing. Original style hoses with -8AN screw-on fittings will feed from the tranny to the steel lines. A steel line also will feed from the new cooler to the original stock, since both are frame-mounted. That will eliminate the PITA to deal with this system, allow for tighter bends necessary to mount the new cooler, as well as allow more room on the frame rail when dealing with the AC lines coming off the compressor just below (and have no other routing options) and the 3 battery cables that run that same route. The tubing will simply install from the front strait though the frame rail channel, no hassles now or later. Then I'm gonna heat-shield that route from the exhaust manifold.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0428191746[1].jpg (160.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 0506191944[1].jpg (243.6 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 0506191944a[1].jpg (218.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 0509191049[1].jpg (178.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 0509191051[1].jpg (181.3 KB, 4 views)
Mountain Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×