HELP...Looking for the "right" engine...

swhite832 · 10-02-2009, 01:15 PM

20 looks and no replies???

I am partial to the pre '98 Cummins 5.9. The biggest reason is there is a TON of information on these engines on the dodge forums. They are mechanical. They are very durable. If you can follow instructions you can work on it yourself.

CDL rules vary state to state.

kenfoozed · 10-02-2009, 01:54 PM

Well I am new here myself, and did a lot of searching on each engine as to good or bad. From what I can gather dont pick a Detroit Diesel, at least not one in a skoolie. The larger transit buses ( Crown) have the DD and seem to do great. The Cat engines for the most part seem ok, but have had problems in the past. These are the 3116 and varients. From all that I can find the International dt 466 is liked alot as well as the cummins 8.3, followed by the 5.9 cummins and the dt360. These last 4 will be the only ones I plan on looking for. Unless there are others I have yet to find. But then again Im sure it really all depends on the mileage of the engine found and which model.

check this post
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2167&p=16047&hilit=engines#p1 6047

it helped me

kamoo · 10-02-2009, 06:14 PM

I believe the diesel statment is correct and probably the reason for the longevity of the Cummins and DTs. In the older bus applications the DTs and Cummins were all under 250HP but had a relatively large displacement. People demanding more power and the engine manufacturers giving it to them have, in my opinion, killed the diesel. Electronics in diesels are akin to emissions in the 70s on gas engines. Lots of issues that took years to work out. I only wanted a Cummins or Intl DT, no 444, 7.3, 8.2 and definately no Cat 31 series. Many have had good luck with them just like many have had good luck with a Pinto. I really like the Freightliner bus, mainly for looks and they were specd with Cummins in some places. Cat to me is extremely overrated and overpriced in every aspect of their business from equipment to generators to engines. There are equal and better choices available. But you know what they say opinions are...

the_experience03 · 10-02-2009, 08:25 PM

Rest assured that the manufacturers wouldn't have computerized if it weren't absolutely necessary to play the emissions game. Even still, Cat has pulled the plug on the on-road diesels due to ever strangling emissions regulations.

kamoo · 10-03-2009, 09:13 AM

I think the electronics are a good thing as well, just not yet. It improves diagnostics, emissions, fuel consumption etc. It seems that most of the injection issues were in the transition time when Cat and Intl went to the oil fired injection (HEUI in Cat). Once the bugs are worked out Im sure it will be good but in addition to the injection systems, the fuel quality and delivery needs alot of work as well from the distribution end which was not an issue when going from carbs to EFI. The new engines are very tempermental with any contaminates and water in fuel. The artical posted is informative but the engines mentioned are absolete and getting fewer and far between, no more DD 2 strokes or 3208s have been made in a long time. As long as they continue to squeeze more and more power out of the new lightweight diesels, the gap between gas and diesel longevity will close or go backwards. Since noone except GM has offered an EFI gas alternative to a diesel in a medium duty chassis in years its kind of hard to make a modern day arguement that the diesels get better mileage or last longer than a gas counterpart in this application. There is nothing really to compare it to. WIth the costs of Tier3-4 diesel repairs, initial costs and lack of durability, gas engines may make a comeback for many fleet owners. The question is will any manufacturer ever offer them again?

paul iossi · 10-04-2009, 09:19 PM

Cat and International are partners in the HEUI systems development, even though Cat is backing away from the truck engine market they have entered into an agreement with internatiional to develope a heavy duty Cat brand truck for the world market.

Jarlaxle · 10-10-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Before I get into this, let me first dispel some myths about diesels. These engines developed their reputation for reliability and very long engine life beginning over a hundred years ago, a reputation that, for the most part, no longer holds. That reputation was based up very unsophisticated, slow turning, low horsepower engines. Except for sailboat auxiliaries, you won’t find many such engines in existence today. Today we have a "need for speed," and everyone wants to go fast. Going fast is what negates the virtues of those engines from a by-gone era.

The modern diesel is very sophisticated, complex, lighter weight and very powerful. Hence, their life span is often no more than that of a gas engine, often times even less. To say that they are delicate is not an overstatement. There is a very simple rule today that the more power you try to squeeze out of a given engine block, the less service life it will give. People can argue all they want to, but that is a fact.

That might be the single STUPIDEST thing I have ever read on this board!

Even the potent 300+HP Cummins engines are million-milers!

the_experience03 · 10-10-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

That might be the single STUPIDEST thing I have ever read on this board!

Even the potent 300+HP Cummins engines are million-milers!

I'm not so sure I'd jump to that conclusion right away. Take the new 6.7 Cummins, for instance. The diesel guys bleed fuel oil and will praise the benefits of diesels such as fuel economy, longevity, power, etc. The very next week they will be bitching about how their truck went into limp mode and wouldn't make any power, yada yada yada. The hard parts are still million mile parts. A giant connecting rod is a giant connecting rod no matter how you look at it. However, the electronics are now the weak link, as are other auxiliary items not found on diesels of yesteryear such as EGR, variable geometry turbos, DPF systems, etc. At the same time, gasoline engines have grown ever more reliable, efficient, and powerful. I really do think the gap between cost of ownership is closing.

I think it would be really interesting to see a school bus or medium duty truck equipped with say an LY6 4th gen small block Chevy. Even detuned from its 352 hp, 382 ft lbs light truck version I bet that potent little 6 liter would be right on par with an ISB in terms of power and economy in a bus, but would deliver a much lower cost of ownership over the 250,000 mile life the average bus is going to have.

lapeer20m · 10-11-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_experience03

I think it would be really interesting to see a school bus or medium duty truck equipped with say an LY6 4th gen small block Chevy. Even detuned from its 352 hp, 382 ft lbs light truck version I bet that potent little 6 liter would be right on par with an ISB in terms of power and economy in a bus, but would deliver a much lower cost of ownership over the 250,000 mile life the average bus is going to have.

i've said the same thing about ambulances. I used to work private ems for years, and they use almost exclusively ford psd engines, and in my opinion, they are junk for that particular application. I thought several times it would be interesting to buy two brand new identical ambulances, one with psd and the other with a gasser and compare overall operating/repair/maintenance/fuel costs over the lifetime of the vehicle. darned 6.0 liter engines require a $100 oil change! 6.0 liter is a bad example though....it is even worse than a 7.3 psd when it comes to blowing itself apart! (well, better at blowing itself apart...but a worse engine)

kamoo · 10-11-2009, 11:24 AM

The point isnt that the engine in itself will last a million miles, its the cost to get it there and all of the other items bolted to it that make it run. Its also a misconception that a locally used platform i.e. semi tractor will last a million miles running local moves. They start nickle and diming around 250k and are shot at 500k. The over the road trucks go a long time between majors because 95% of the time they are running at a constant RPM, just like stationary equipment and boats. Even so, you could drop a new crate 6.0 gas in at 200k and still be money ahead considering just the initial cost of a diesel. Recently I priced a new dump truck with an ISC and was told that there is a $10k price increase from 2009 - 2010 models due to the additional emissions. $10k extra is alot of cheese.

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