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Old 02-07-2017, 07:55 PM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Engine: DT466E
Leaking oil over pneumatic door

Hey all...If this isn't the right spot to post this, please let me know. And I will tell you up front that I am NOT a mechanic, and I don't know the proper terms for basically everything. I'll do my best to describe what I see, and hopefully some nice person here will take pity on me and help me fix it.

I am tearing down the interior of my 2000 AmTran 3800, and I took the cover over the pneumatics for the front door yesterday. It looks like there's a reasonably decent leak in there. There was oil COVERING the bottom of the inside of the cover, and it looks like it's sprayed all over the place. By looking at it, it looks like the leak is coming from the first piece (the one on the left in these pics) where it looks like the air line initially enters the setup. I could clearly see an oil droplet on one of the bolt heads. I'm guessing there's some sort of gasket in that first gadget that may need replaced? Or can I just try tightening the bolts that hold the top of the gadget to the bottom of the gadget? I'm assuming that bolt at the bottom of the set up is how you adjust the pressure or something, and I'm not sure I want to get into messing with that if I don't have to.

So, since I'm decidedly not awesome at describing this stuff, here's some photos:

In this pic, the droplet of oil I saw is on the head of bolt #2, if you're going from left to right.



Here's the overall setup. The piece that looks like has the problem is at the far left:



In this pic, the bolt with the droplet is on the left up high, and you can see there is also a droplet on the head of the (what I assume is) the set-screw bolt.



Any help is definitely appreciated! I'm not afraid to go in and get dirty, but I don't want to cause more problems, or waste my time on chasing the problem in the wrong place.

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Old 02-07-2017, 08:19 PM   #2
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the thing on the left is a pressure regulator. there shouldn't be any oil in it, might be water leaking out. moisture in the air system.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:14 PM   #3
Skoolie
 
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It's clearly oil. It may not be pure oil, but it's definitely got a fair amount of oil in it. The original sized photos at PB show it a bit better. I can try to take better/closer photos tomorrow in the daylight. Here's another:

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Old 02-08-2017, 04:41 AM   #4
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There shouldn't be any oil or water in that regulator.

Have you drained any of your air tanks to see what comes out of the bottom of them?

If you have oil in your air system you have a major problem that could turn into a disaster. You will find the problem in your air compressor.

The usual culprit is worn rings in the compressor. Over time, much like the rings in the engine, the rings wear out. But unlike in an engine where wear worn out rings that leak oil turn the exhaust blue, in an air compressor it means oil gets out and into your air system.

If you get too much moisture of any kind in your air system you are going to have problems. If it is moisture your system will freeze when it gets cold. If it is oil it can really muck up things like spring brake valves, treadle valves, and air cans.

So in answer to your question, no there should not be any oil leaking out of the door control mechanism.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress on discovering why the re is oil appearing in your door control mechanism.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
So in answer to your question, no there should not be any oil leaking out of the door control mechanism.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress on discovering why the re is oil appearing in your door control mechanism.
Yikes. Well, that sounds fun. I have not tried draining the air compressor. I assume that is a relatively simple thing to do? Is there just a simple release valve on the bottom of the tank somewhere? I assume releasing the valve doesn't require a special tool? Is it better to do when the bus has not been running for a few days?

I've never done this sort of thing before, but I am reasonably mechanically inclined, and know the difference between a crescent wrench and a socket wrench.

I continue to appreciate the assistance and advice!

Edit: I'm also going to go out and try to clean off all the existing gunk. That will make it easier to find out where it's truly coming from. Maybe it's not coming from the pressure regulator, but instead that's where it's collecting.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:52 AM   #6
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under your bus is an air tank.
On my 1998 International it is behind the driver hanging off the frame under the floor.
It has three ballcocks that you turn by hand.
no need to run engine first, but open slowly and watch out for an oily/watery mess to spray out for a while.
Open all three and leave open till pressure is down to zero.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzWantsABus View Post
That will make it easier to find out where it's truly coming from. Maybe it's not coming from the pressure regulator, but instead that's where it's collecting.
I believe there is a tiny pin hole in the regulator body that releases excess air in order to regulate to desired down stream pressure.
Or there is a thread port that does the same.

Check your compressor oil level if it is so equipped to do so. Maybe it is too full.
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7 View Post
Check your compressor oil level if it is so equipped to do so. Maybe it is too full.
What would I look for in order to do this?
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DoubleO7 View Post
Open all three and leave open till pressure is down to zero.
My tank is located similarly. I'll crawl under there later this week and see what happens. Thanks for the info!
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Old 02-08-2017, 12:34 PM   #10
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There is no separate oil sump for the air compressor. It uses engine lube oil for lubrication.

Since your bus has an air operated door control your bus most likely has at least three tanks and more likely four. Each is independent of the other so that if you lose air in one circuit you don't lose air in the rest of the system.

The first tank is the wet tank. This tank is supplied directly from the air compressor. All of the air in the rest of the system is supplied from this tank. From there the air goes to the front and rear tanks that supply air to the front and rear brakes. Once those three tanks are at least 60 PSI and sometimes as much 90 PSI the fourth tank is filled. The fourth tank is where the air for the accessories like door controls and air horns is supplied.

On the bottom of each tank is a drain. Sometimes these are automatic spitters which keeps the tanks as dry as possible. On older buses they are usually manual valves. The wet tank should be opened every day at the end of the day to release whatever moisture that has accumulated over the day. The wet tank will also capture most of the excess gunk that does accumulate in an air tank. If you don't dump the moisture and gunk it eventually gets sent downstream to the front, rear, and auxiliary tank. Once it gets that far downstream it can then start get out into air cans, relays, regulators, and accessories.

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Old 02-08-2017, 12:47 PM   #11
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Cowlitz,

Thanks very much for that explanation and information. I will go crawling about and see what I can learn, then report back here.

This is one of many reasons why this forum is awesome. Thanks again!
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Old 02-09-2017, 07:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
There shouldn't be any oil or water in that regulator.

Have you drained any of your air tanks to see what comes out of the bottom of them?
So I went out tonight and drained the air tank. I opened all three valves. The rear two valves were fine, but when I opened the front one, oil sprayed out, and then continued to drip for a couple of minutes after the tank was empty. I would guess maybe 2-3 teaspoons total came out.

Does that likely point to the compressor seals, then? How easy or hard might that be for me to fix? Or is that amount "normal," and now that it's been emptied, no more problems? Should I leave the valves open and run the engine, and see if oil continues to come out?
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Old 02-10-2017, 12:41 AM   #13
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It may or may not be normal.

And it sort of depends upon when the tanks were last drained.

With that much coming out I would guess it has been a while.

I think that is you start draining the wet tank every time you are finished for the day and leave the valve open until you go to start the next time you may find less and less coming out each time.

This time of the year it isn't unusual for a tank to accumulate quite a bit of moisture. Between the high humidity and difference in temp between the hot air going in and the cold tank you will condense quite a bit of water every day.

If you drain it every day and leave it open to drain over night, what little amount that is in there will eventually drain out.

The fact you didn't have much of anything in your primary and secondary tanks tells me your system isn't in that bad of a condition.

Running the engine with the drain open wouldn't be helpful at all.
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:49 AM   #14
Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
It may or may not be normal.

And it sort of depends upon when the tanks were last drained.

With that much coming out I would guess it has been a while.
Sounds good. I'll just drain the tank after every time I run it. If there keeps being a large amount, then I'll go from there. Thanks for your help!
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:31 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by FuzzWantsABus View Post
Sounds good. I'll just drain the tank after every time I run it. If there keeps being a large amount, then I'll go from there. Thanks for your help!
Yeah drain your tanks after you shut the bus down at the end of the day.
They probably just hadn't been drained in a LONG time.
Best of luck!
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:05 AM   #16
Skoolie
 
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Yeah drain your tanks after you shut the bus down at the end of the day.
They probably just hadn't been drained in a LONG time.
Best of luck!
You're probably right. My bus is very well maintained overall, so it stands to reason. And, frankly, if I hadn't had the problem, I wouldn't have learned about an important maintenance item! So it's all good.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:04 PM   #17
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I wasn't draining my tanks because for the most part I was just pulling in & out a few feet when I work on it, then the Rt front brake started sticking but since I've started draining everytime it doesn't stick anymore.
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