Manual Transmissions

[Mango]

I also love driving a manual... cut my teeth on a Mack when I was a teen.. main & auxiliary double stick.. then drove a fire truck with a 5 speed for many years.. in the 80's the city started buying trucks with automatics and we all(engineers) hated `em.... too sluggish... response time was of the essence... I haven't bought my bus yet, and can't honestly say that I have driven one yet, but if I can drive a snorkel, I figure I can drive a bus.

[Alan N]

If you like a five speed you will love a ten speed.
The ignore feature of this forum is nice also.

[johnboy]

Our bus is 5sp manual with a Gearvendors two sp in the tail shaft of the gear box.
THAT was initially controlled by a computer...and it kept shifting into a different ratio when I didn't want it to!
After a run of 300 miles through upandicular terrain those wires got cut.
I've driven over 3,000,000 miles in manual trucks and know what gear I want for the conditions I'm facing.
A dumb machine doesn't have the knowledge and experience that I have.
jb

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by johnboy

Our bus is 5sp manual with a Gearvendors two sp in the tail shaft of the gear box.
THAT was initially controlled by a computer...and it kept shifting into a different ratio when I didn't want it to!
After a run of 300 miles through upandicular terrain those wires got cut.
I've driven over 3,000,000 miles in manual trucks and know what gear I want for the conditions I'm facing.
A dumb machine doesn't have the knowledge and experience that I have.
jb

the new ones are getting much more intuitive.. last year i replaced an old mechanical allison 4 speed auto with a 6 speed electronic allison auto.. at first it had some trouble figuring out the right gears, however since I built my own interface box that feeds the transmission all kinds more engine data than what was present on the original J1939 link, I find it does a pretty darn good job of choosing gears.. it even monitors cruise control status and helps to anticipate the loads.. im toying around with using google elevation data so i can feed it engine loading data that im climbing a grade or am going downhill.. that same J1939 link also allows me the ability to manually choose gears electronically..



while i suppose there's some "he-man" asppeal of a manual.. i love sitting back and letting my transmission do its job and do it well..
-Christopher

[cycle61]

The bus I'm looking at has a manual, and no electronic controls of any kind, I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about DIY controllers for new whizbang automatics.

[devorejh]

I have ridden in a schoolie in Honduras that had an engine and 10spd manual out of a road tractor installed. It was wicked fast!

[joeblack5]

Originally Posted by cycle61

You really just have to chime in on every single thread, don't you?

Where is this coming from ??. Information regarding manual versus auto,s was added. Some elaboration is needed if you disagree what was written.

Johan

[devorejh]

Originally Posted by Kubla

automatics in buses are because the bus companies could not find people to hire that could drive manuals, they also got tired of putting clutches in them every year

I was driving for the school system in South Carolina in the late 70's during the conversion from manuals to automatics. Manuals were averaging 7 mpg on routes. The automatics were about half that. The automatics were still cheaper because many people can't drive one properly, even then. Clutches... transmission synchros... u joints... An idiot behind a manual can more than pay for an automatic on the same route. When you factor in the higher availability and ease of training a staff with high turnover, it made sense.

An abused manual with no working syncros isn't much fun to drive either.

School systems stop ordering them, manufacturers stop offering them.

Still. I prefer manuals and I wonder why retrofits aren't more common. Perhaps the parts are drying up as well.

[BlackJohn]

If manuals are now that rare, do they command more money in being a collector's item? Wouldn't trade mine for all the money in China or auto of any brand name, built this way, staying this way. Oh, and no head aches to boot.


John

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by cycle61

The bus I'm looking at has a manual, and no electronic controls of any kind, I'd definitely be interested in hearing more about DIY controllers for new whizbang automatics.

im using the Allison 6 speed TCM, in the newer busses they feed lots of engine data to the TCM to help it make informed shifts.. the TCM's in use when my bus was made (year 2000).. were relatively new at the time and only 5 speed.. and used only throttle data from the engine..



I swapped a modern 6 speed in last year when my AT545 bit the dust, alonbg with it a modern TCM 5th generation which can operate with just throttle, however it has learning capabilities and does better the more engine and driving data that you feed it.. my little Box sits between the engine computer and the allison TCM.. I read data in from 2 different sources from the engine computer, combine them and add some learning capabilities of my own. and feed the transmission the modern data...



modern TCMs have the ability for things like Grade braking (trans auto downshifts if you over-shoot your cruise speed... so descending a hill you set your cruise at say 45. and the computer will auto down the transmission, learning the best gear.. on hill climbs it utilizes the ability to see all engine data, temp,rpm, TPS, load factor, and rate of accel or decel, the engine computer generates this data on its own however it wasnt being transmitted on the transmission computer link.. (remember back in year 2000 the allisons didnt use it yet.). I updated the program code in my engine computer which produces more data..


so im not using a complete Homebrew computer but just a translator of sorts.. its not in a pretty box... right now its a bunch of circuits and a Raspberry pi stuffed under the seat in a plastic box. for testing... I do alot of running with and without it to see how well im doing or whether im buggering things up... as well as Tuning the allison computer with the Tuning software.. Tuning allisons can get dangerous esp if adjusting solenoid and line pressure settings.. you can destroy the transmission if you screw up royally.. less likely if you disable lockup and do initial testing wheels in the air..





there is a guy i know who is developing his own Allison 6 speed trans computer that will talk to GMC, Ford, Cummins, Cat, and Navistar to be used for people wanting to do swaps, unlock their locked-out 6th gear etc... its not ready yet..



-Christopher

[Mekanic]

My U-RV (Homebuilt RV from box truck) has a 6 speed manual trans

If I remember right it is a Fuller FS-xxxxx
Anyway I remember the FS stand for fully synchronized
1st though 6th gear. No need to use the clutch once moving. Except to downshift into 1st. BIG STICKER on visor says Do Not downshift into 1st gear unless stopped.
I remember 1st gear is a 9. to 1 ratio and 6 is NOT a OD 1:1
It works great. if i climb a mountain in 4th I go back down in 4th. It will hold speed on any grade 7% or less. It has no jake brake or exh brake.

1994 12V 5.9 Cummins, 6 speed, 3.58 rear gears. 15K lbs

At the school where I drive over 95% of the buses are autos.
There is WAY more profit in Autos for the OEMS than a stick shift. That is why cars are going to them.
Don't kid your self with the old "no one buys them anymore". You can't buy them if they don't make them.

It is getting so bad the DMV in Ohio Now issues New CDLs with a Auto trans ONLY restriction if you take your test in a Auto trans school bus.

[mikeypj]

The manual tranny is one of the things that originally drew me to buying my bus.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

I drive for a company that moves new trucks (and some buses) from factories to dealers. In our Laredo lot there is a chassis (no cowl, just a bare chassis) intended for a school bus. It struck me as odd being the only one there - why a single chassis for a bus plant when they already have hundreds coming from their usual source? Answer - it had a manual transmission. School bus builders are in the business of building buses (mostly) to order, but like I was told by the McDowell County school bus barn manager (and his head mechanic) - they retired all the manual transmission buses because none of the drivers wanted to drive 'em. And I'll be honest - being in the business of moving brand-new trucks to dealers, these new automatics (many of which are the same ol' 10-speeds, with auto-clutch, auto-shift), they'll make a driver lazy and spoiled. I can understand why big fleets are adopting them - many of these rookies coming through driving school these days have never learned to drive a manual and many can't or don't want to learn.

[johnboy]

With a manual box I feel that I am more in control of the vehicle; Idrive it.
With an auto I feel that I'm just there for the ride and to steer it around corners.

[BSam]

I read all of the great things about a manual transmission, so I bought one. It’s a 1985 International. The problem is that I don’t know how to drive one, but I’m willing to learn. Any advice?

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

I drive for a company that moves new trucks (and some buses) from factories to dealers. In our Laredo lot there is a chassis (no cowl, just a bare chassis) intended for a school bus. It struck me as odd being the only one there - why a single chassis for a bus plant when they already have hundreds coming from their usual source? Answer - it had a manual transmission. School bus builders are in the business of building buses (mostly) to order, but like I was told by the McDowell County school bus barn manager (and his head mechanic) - they retired all the manual transmission buses because none of the drivers wanted to drive 'em. And I'll be honest - being in the business of moving brand-new trucks to dealers, these new automatics (many of which are the same ol' 10-speeds, with auto-clutch, auto-shift), they'll make a driver lazy and spoiled. I can understand why big fleets are adopting them - many of these rookies coming through driving school these days have never learned to drive a manual and many can't or don't want to learn.

A good majority of school bus drivers are woman who don't like to drive manuals. That's why the are scarce.

[Blueman]

Well just take it slow. Never rush it in gear. Watch your rpm's. And eventually you'll know when to shift just by listening to your engine. And remember.. practice makes perfect. Find a less traveled road and go practice. Good luck on your journey. I love my manual transmission

[magnakansas]

Where in the world are you?

Have you considered driving lessons to learn how to drive a manual?

Farmers could probably teach as well as truck drivers.


I can teach you, but Toto and I are in Kansas
William

[capnron]

Originally Posted by BSam

I read all of the great things about a manual transmission, so I bought one. It’s a 1985 International. The problem is that I don’t know how to drive one, but I’m willing to learn. Any advice?

Hi BSam. Congrats on finding a manual transmission bus. I'm betting it's a 5 speed. If it has syncro, it will be easier. The technique for shifting a manual is easy to demonstrate, but hard to describe. The concept of engine speed as it relates to RPM however, is easy. Say you are in third and want to up shift, you let the engine speed fall off a bit as you move from 3rd to 4th. Say you are moving at 30 mph and your rpm is 1400, your engine might be running at 1200 in 4th at the same 30 mph speed. I tried to find a decent video, but most show shifting but don't describe what they are doing. If you watch this and listen to the engine sound, it may be easier to understand. The driver also demonstrates the double clutching technique as well. Good luck with the new bus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHuvJmdw29I

[balconio]

I just bought an international with an Eaton 6 speed manual. It's an FSxxx not an FSOxxx which I wish it was because then I'd have overdrive. Top speed in 6th gear hitting the 2600rpm limiter is 63mph. This bus has a DT466 so it could easily have a higher top speed with better gearing.

IDK if it's better to search for an overdrive Eaton or start thinking about swapping rear end gears. I'd love it if I could top out at 75mph and cruise 65mph at like 2200rpm. Either swap would also give me more usable ratios in the lower gears too... 5th gear is currently only good for 45mph at 2600rpm