Need a bigger engine/more power.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I am referring to the difference of a slipping transmission as in the bands or clutches are slipping, versus just slippage of the non locked converter. So the comment his transmission is slipping while most of us will know he means torque converter slipping , some may really believe he means just what he said, that the trans is slipping. So just a note on the grammar that was used.

Now having said that it seems you have some real experience with building vehicles, so I would assume you are familiar that most hot rodders spec a torque converter with a stall speed to match it intended use. Do you know if there is a torque converter available with a lower stall speed for the bus in question? This is going to be a possible solution for the bus. Not total by any means, but a step in the right direction if he does not want to change the trans.

This helped my old Dodge with the cummins5.9 a lot in terms of heat. Also a separate trans cooler with it's own fan NOT in front of the radiator. I mounted it under the flatbed.

The OP never said anything at all about his tranny or it slipping. ECCB deduced that his overheating issue, due to the symptoms, was indicative of what happens with a 545 that is probably in his bus.
I know how torque converters work, but in 50 years of building vehicles I can't remember every building one with an automatic. So I couldn't begin to tell you what torque converters would be available for the 545. Hopefully he'll want to change the trans, every upgrade there is way better than before.

[madhat]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

Sure, an OD trans would do him wonders. Odds are though, if he was capable of doing the swap himself, he wouldn't have came here asking the question. And I'd hate to see what a shop would charge to do all the work that christopher did.

I have a feeling his engine is overheating because it's redlined, not because the torque converter isn't locked.

IMHO, a lockup converter won't change his top speed, or lower his rpm anything substantial on the highway, therefore it won't fix his overheating.

Figure out your current rear gear, and we'll go from there.

In all honesty, you might have to do a gear change and a trans upgrade to get what you want. Or find a place that will swap in a allison 2000 at a reasonable price.

I read and re-read all the replies to my thread and learned a lot.
My bus doesn't overheat on flat ground and even some small hills. What I want to achieve with my swaps is to make the bus more roadworthy. My top speed is barely 50, even that is pushing the 2500 rpm. My partner and I work seasonal jobs and we snowbird at the same time. A lot of driving.
Crossing mountain passes I sometimes creep at 5-10 mph and having to pull over frequently to cool down.

What I learned here is that I can either get a really good 6 spd trans like allison 2000 and leave my original rear dif OR change my rear dif gearing plus an upgraded trans.

Also how do I find the rear dif gearing ratio? Where is it located?

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by madhat

I read and re-read all the replies to my thread and learned a lot.

My bus doesn't overheat on flat ground and even some small hills. What I want to achieve with my swaps is to make the bus more roadworthy. My top speed is barely 50, even that is pushing the 2500 rpm. My partner and I work seasonal jobs and we snowbird at the same time. A lot of driving.

Crossing mountain passes I sometimes creep at 5-10 mph and having to pull over frequently to cool down.



What I learned here is that I can either get a really good 6 spd trans like allison 2000 and leave my original rear dif OR change my rear dif gearing plus an upgraded trans.



Also how do I find the rear dif gearing ratio? Where is it located?

It may be stamped on the diff itself. If not, provided that you have a big enough jack and jack stands you can jack up the rear axle, spin by hand, and count revolutions. Or, you can find a calculator online and input your transmissions ratios, tire size, rpm and speed and it can estimate your rear end ratio.

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by madhat

I read and re-read all the replies to my thread and learned a lot.
My bus doesn't overheat on flat ground and even some small hills. What I want to achieve with my swaps is to make the bus more roadworthy. My top speed is barely 50, even that is pushing the 2500 rpm. My partner and I work seasonal jobs and we snowbird at the same time. A lot of driving.
Crossing mountain passes I sometimes creep at 5-10 mph and having to pull over frequently to cool down.

What I learned here is that I can either get a really good 6 spd trans like allison 2000 and leave my original rear dif OR change my rear dif gearing plus an upgraded trans.

Also how do I find the rear dif gearing ratio? Where is it located?

If you were fast on the flats but slow up the hills, then a numerically higher rear axle ratio could help. However, you are already slow on flat ground and changing to a higher ratio would make that even worse.

I have an International box truck with the same drive train and a 26' box. We used that as our moving truck from the East Coast to Montana. Fully loaded (near max GVWR of 25900 lbs) and towing a trailer this truck has to be heavier than your bus and it is certainly not more streamlined.

On our first trip out West we had a major challenge making it over the Appalachian ridge even in the cold Winter temperatures. The engine shut down several times due to overheat.

On flat ground in the flyover states, we would get about 65 mph @ 2200-2400 rpm. Before hitting the hills again in the Dakotas, I changed the transmission fluid to TranSynd and that made a positive difference on the grades in Wyoming and Montana.

In Montana I then rebuilt the entire cooling system. Installed a new water pump, cleaned and checked both sides of the radiator (one is for coolant, the other is for the intake air coming from the turbo charger), installed a new fan clutch, new fan and shroud, checked all turbo connections. Since then, I had no more problems on any hills even in the Summer. The truck will slow down but the engine will not go anymore into reduced power and ultimately shutdown.

As others have mentioned before, the T444E cooling system is marginal and the AT545 will add additional strain to the system by the head generated in the non-locking converter. My suggestion is to rebuild the cooling system first and then swap the transmission to a model with locking converter.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by madhat

I read and re-read all the replies to my thread and learned a lot.
My bus doesn't overheat on flat ground and even some small hills. What I want to achieve with my swaps is to make the bus more roadworthy. My top speed is barely 50, even that is pushing the 2500 rpm. My partner and I work seasonal jobs and we snowbird at the same time. A lot of driving.
Crossing mountain passes I sometimes creep at 5-10 mph and having to pull over frequently to cool down.

What I learned here is that I can either get a really good 6 spd trans like allison 2000 and leave my original rear dif OR change my rear dif gearing plus an upgraded trans.

Also how do I find the rear dif gearing ratio? Where is it located?

Usually covered in oil/grease on a tag on the axle. My Thomas actually has 2 tags on the axle indicating the gear ratio. I just had to wire brush off about a quarter inch of grime.

[Ronnie]

A gear change to help with top speed will hurt power even more. So...as has been said already work on cooling system, then get some power, then trans upgrade. I have to feel that there might well be an issue with the engine not producing what it should. I would have a good diesel shop check the injectors, do a proper tune up on it and see what differance that makes.

Have the fuel filters been changed recently? If not start there, if so back to the above.

[madhat]

I found an Allison 2000 trans on the ebay and it is from 2002. I asked the seller about shipping and also if it would fit my bus.
His reply:

"SHIPPING IS 369.00 TO A COMMERCIAL ADDRESS OR TERMINAL. HOW FAR ARE YOU FROM FEFI WA., OR TACOMA. SIR YOU CAN NOT RUN A NEWER ALLISON IN AN OLDER TRUCK. IF IT WAS ME I'D RUN A 6 SPEED MANUAL EATON. SHIFTS LIKE A CAR AND THE TRANS WILL OUTLAST THE TRUCK"


So this brings me to a whole different path of my skoolie upgrade. Is he right saying that the newer trans would not fit the 1997?
Also is manual conversion even possible on my model?

[cadillackid]

you *CAN* run a newer trans in an older truck / bus... just read my thread called.. the RedByrd Transformation... im doing it... and it was a lot of work.. and it totally F'ing rocks.. just took a group of guys on a bus trip yesterday 200 miles round trip.. pushed me over 20,000 since i did my trans swap a year ago now...



if you have the patience for a custom swap you can definitely do it.. now that 2002 allison 2000 is a 5 speed with a .74 overdrive.. to get 6 speeds you need to mod the valve body / add a couple solenoids, and use a newer (4th or 5th) gen TCM...



you'll need electronics to go along with your shiny new tranny...


-Christopher

[madhat]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

you *CAN* run a newer trans in an older truck / bus... just read my thread called.. the RedByrd Transformation... im doing it... and it was a lot of work.. and it totally F'ing rocks.. just took a group of guys on a bus trip yesterday 200 miles round trip.. pushed me over 20,000 since i did my trans swap a year ago now...



if you have the patience for a custom swap you can definitely do it.. now that 2002 allison 2000 is a 5 speed with a .74 overdrive.. to get 6 speeds you need to mod the valve body / add a couple solenoids, and use a newer (4th or 5th) gen TCM...



you'll need electronics to go along with your shiny new tranny...


-Christopher

So its not just plug and play. Since I can't do the work myself I would have to go to a shop. But whats the chance they know how to get the right electronics? I guess I don't even know what the electronics are and how to get everything I need. Starting to wonder if I'd be better just getting a whole new bus...

[cabinover]

Take a close look at the back side of your engine fan clutch assy. If you see damp dust, that indicates the fluid that drives the clutch is leaking and gathering that dust, you need a fan clutch. That's a good start. Replaced a ton of them in my bus wrenching years and it was the most common problem with overheating on a 444. Not a hard job, just annoying getting to some of the shroud bolts. You'll get creative with extensions.

It's where I'd start looking.

As for the speed/power issue, I'll venture in and say a gear swap isn't going to do what you want. You can have speed with a little power or you can have better power at the cost of speed. It's much like the old saying, you can have fast, cheap, or dependable....pick two

It's a rather small motor for it's intended use in a bus. It works well up to it's limits though and is pretty much bulletproof other than oil leaks and the occasional crank sensor.

Add to that an AT545 and like my wife says, "it is what it is". A separate trans cooler will help to some extent.

[Bon Voyage]

I’m not familiar with that engine except a little with the 7.3 ford powerstroke version which is mainly the same. There’s a ton of stuff out there if you look into for upgrades that may work on yours. I know the first thing to do on a 7.3 powerstroke is to upgrade to a bigger air intake. It wouldn’t help the overheating but it would give you more power.

[elkoskoolie]

Pretty sure you should be able to run that engine at 2800 rpm all day - it's a v8 and 8's like to rev. If you're running too low rpms you may be straining the motor, adding to heating issues?

[scosol]

> reality is the 444E cooling system is crap .. the radiator capacity in a ford F-250 with a 7.3 is higher than that split rad om tje school busses..

Yeah... what I would do (and plan on doing) for minimal $$$ and max ease is to replace the split radiator/intercooler thing with the fullsize radiator-only version. (cost $500 brand new last time I checked- bolts right in)

Then buy a new/used front-mount truck intercooler and stick it up on front somewhere/somehow.

-SS

[sr41056]

Originally Posted by o1marc

ALL is definitely an exaggeration. Torque and horsepower don't change with a gear change in the rear, it just moves the power band. A higher gear for highway speed will slow your execration off the line, but give you higher speed at the same RPM. A lower gear would get you faster off the line, but sacrifice top speed.
Depends on how much you change the rear gear.

I never heard the word 'execration' before. I looked it up. It means the art of cursing!

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by sr41056

I never heard the word 'execration' before. I looked it up. It means the art of cursing!

Spell check for you, they only know how to incorrectly spell the words you typed correctly.
Or I was slowly cursing it off the line.

[alpine44]

Originally Posted by scosol

> reality is the 444E cooling system is crap .. the radiator capacity in a ford F-250 with a 7.3 is higher than that split rad om tje school busses..

Yeah... what I would do (and plan on doing) for minimal $$$ and max ease is to replace the split radiator/intercooler thing with the fullsize radiator-only version. (cost $500 brand new last time I checked- bolts right in)

Then buy a new/used front-mount truck intercooler and stick it up on front somewhere/somehow.

-SS

The somewhere/somehow is the big problem. Since the installation needs to be truck proof this is not as easy/cheap as souping up a ricer.

I was tempted to 'redesign' the whole system but figured why not restore the factory design first and see where that goes.

New from the factory, the T444E stock radiator and charge cooler combo do the job. The cheapest and easiest 'upgrade' on my truck was to clean everything, chase down charge air leaks, get a new fan clutch, shroud and the upgraded fan with the gazillion blades. Now, the temp needle goes nowhere near the red zone regardless how hard I push the truck in the summer up a grade.

Definitely add an additional transmission cooler for the AT545 and change to a synthetic transmission fluid that stays 'thicker' when hot.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by scosol

Yeah... what I would do (and plan on doing) for minimal $$$ and max ease is to replace the split radiator/intercooler thing with the fullsize radiator-only version. (cost $500 brand new last time I checked- bolts right in)

You got any links or part numbers for this? I couldn't find anything to bolt right in the last I looked and what I was looking at was $800 for just a radiator, add the intercooler and the rest of the bits and you're talking 1000+

[madhat]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Any shop that works on big diesels should be able to help you.
To make the 3060 work you'd need a TCM, TPS, and some other stuff. But not a bad price.
Or buy a rusty bus with a good drivetrain and take the parts you want or need, scrap/sell the rest.

That's where I'm at. I need an engine overhaul, and its cheaper just to buy another bus for the engine.
If you have a 545 trans you'll be lucky to even give it away... ask Tango.

For a bus of your year/engine a 643 would be a nice upgrade and not too expensive or complex.

So turns out the allison 2000 would be way too expensive to covert. I asked the person I bought my bus from since he has connections to bus parts. He recommended MT 654, which is still a 4 speed but it has a locking torque converter plus it would mount easier with minimal modifications.
He said that they usually put this tranny in 40 ft busses because its more heavy duty.

My girlfriends dad said that my engine is the problem and he recommended to chip it to get more HP and leave everything else stock. I am no specialist but big part of my issue is that the engine /tranny is working way too hard and I should rather take some of the pressure off it.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

You got any links or part numbers for this? I couldn't find anything to bolt right in the last I looked and what I was looking at was $800 for just a radiator, add the intercooler and the rest of the bits and you're talking 1000+

Used would be the way to go.

Look up the radiator for a 2003 IC CE300 and you should find a full rad and intercooler.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by madhat

So turns out the allison 2000 would be way too expensive to covert. I asked the person I bought my bus from since he has connections to bus parts. He recommended MT 654, which is still a 4 speed but it has a locking torque converter plus it would mount easier with minimal modifications.
He said that they usually put this tranny in 40 ft busses because its more heavy duty.

My girlfriends dad said that my engine is the problem and he recommended to chip it to get more HP and leave everything else stock. I am no specialist but big part of my issue is that the engine /tranny is working way too hard and I should rather take some of the pressure off it.

There's no "chip".
A 654 is pretty much the same as a 643 only it has a crazy low granny gear. I'd rather go with the 643. It too has a locking tc.