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Old 04-24-2018, 09:18 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
New to the game

Hi all. I am pretty fresh to the idea of a bus conversion, but I get obsessed with good ideas. I have been doing tons of research lately (Mainly on this site) and it has been very helpful. My wife and I are planning on converting a bus and traveling for a while, then putting down roots and having the bus for our vacations. We have three 50+ pound dogs that we plan on taking with us. I have a bus I am looking at right now but I am having trouble finding all of the specs. It is a 1994 Bluebird Ford edition with a 5.9 Cummings. I haven't been able to find the transmission that is in it. She believes it is original and I have the VIN but I am also wanting to pull a smaller SUV with the bus so from what research I have done I believe this motor would get really bad mileage. Opinions? The bus only has 160K miles on it. She says it's a really solid bus and she has only used it to pick up kids for her daycare. I have not seen it personally yet because she is 3 hours away, but it is priced right if it is a decent set up for long hauls. I can upload some pics later. Any direction would be greatly appreciated.

Btw my wife and I are both 29 and live in NE Texas. The plan is to travel as much of the U.S. as we can. Other concerns have to do with residual income (we are working on building up enough rent houses for this), and motion sickness. We think that if we get the ride smooth enough our dogs will be ok but it is a concern.

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Old 04-24-2018, 10:30 AM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
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Location: Winlcok, WA
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Ford buses of that vintage had the Brazilian Ford 5.9L engine more often than the Cummins 5.9L. It isn't a bad engine but about the only place to find any parts and pieces for it is at a New Holland farm equipment dealer. The same engine has been used in farm equipment for a long time.

Whether it has the Cummins or Brazilian engine the most probable transmission is going to be the Allison AT545.

Pulling along a towed behind the bus probably won't increase your fuel use appreciably. The frontal area of the bus uses the most HP and fuel. The faster you try to go the more HP you are going to need and the more fuel you will burn. Since the towed will be narrower and shorter than the bus it won't add to the frontal area and the added drag and weight is relatively insignificant unless you are wanting to tow a full size truck or van.

Just be aware that regardless of the make of the engine the highest HP rating is most likely going to be 210 HP. It will more likely be in the 180-190 HP range. It could be as low as 160 HP. Even at 210 HP, particularly if it has the AT545, you are not going to be climbing hills very quickly and 60 MPH is most probably going to be your top speed.

If these parameters are not going to meet your needs it is a lot less expensive to find a bus with more HP and faster gears from the factory than to try and get more HP and speed out of what you have already.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:12 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
I really appreciate the feedback! The owner has said that it is a Cummings. I'm not sure if she actually knows or not, but if it is would that make parts easier to find? And would it be cheaper to work on if and when there is an issue? Also with that set up (towing the small SUV) driving around the 60mph range what kind of milage would I expect? Would it be better to go with a bigger engine just for the fuel cost?

Sorry about a ton of questions. But thank you for the help!
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #4
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Year: 1999
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Engine: Cummins 6CTA8.3 Mechanical MD3060
Rated Cap: 46 Coach Seats, 40 foot
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgillean View Post
I really appreciate the feedback! The owner has said that it is a Cummings. I'm not sure if she actually knows or not, but if it is would that make parts easier to find? And would it be cheaper to work on if and when there is an issue? Also with that set up (towing the small SUV) driving around the 60mph range what kind of milage would I expect? Would it be better to go with a bigger engine just for the fuel cost?

Sorry about a ton of questions. But thank you for the help!
"Cummins"

10 mpg. Always expect, and plan for 10 mpg. Sometimes you'll get 8, sometimes 12.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:55 AM   #5
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Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
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Year: 1999
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Engine: DT466/3060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgillean View Post
I really appreciate the feedback! The owner has said that it is a Cummings. I'm not sure if she actually knows or not, but if it is would that make parts easier to find? And would it be cheaper to work on if and when there is an issue? Also with that set up (towing the small SUV) driving around the 60mph range what kind of milage would I expect? Would it be better to go with a bigger engine just for the fuel cost?

Sorry about a ton of questions. But thank you for the help!
Cowlitz explained parts availability in the post previous to yours.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:56 AM   #6
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
Thanks for the info. And thanks for the correction. I honestly didn't know that and feel a little dumb lol.
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Old 04-25-2018, 12:44 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgillean View Post
I really appreciate the feedback! The owner has said that it is a Cummings. I'm not sure if she actually knows or not, but if it is would that make parts easier to find? And would it be cheaper to work on if and when there is an issue? Also with that set up (towing the small SUV) driving around the 60mph range what kind of milage would I expect? Would it be better to go with a bigger engine just for the fuel cost?

Sorry about a ton of questions. But thank you for the help!
A picture of the engine or a picture of the engine data plate will tell you which engine is in fact in that bus.

I would not be spending any $$$ until I knew for sure what was under the hood.
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Old 04-25-2018, 10:59 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
A picture of the engine or a picture of the engine data plate will tell you which engine is in fact in that bus.

I would not be spending any $$$ until I knew for sure what was under the hood.
Here is what I have at the moment. I will see if I can get a better picture or one of the engine plate specifically.
Attached Thumbnails
79D78172-1FB8-4940-9D40-463EA4B7EF4F.jpg   C0ABC788-CC8A-4882-8A93-665D597C2420.jpg  
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:09 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
Pulled the trigger!!

I really appreciate all of the feedback! We ended up buying another bus pretty quickly that came up for sale 10 miles from us. It is a 1996 International 3800. It has a 7.3, Allison AT545 four speed automatic, 4:44 gear rear end. I will be starting a project thread soon, but wanted to see what you all thought about the purchase? I feel like we did pretty good. I am very happy with the motor, I haven't done a lot of research on the transmission yet or the rear end gear ratio. But it rides great and it only has 130,000 miles.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_4393.jpg   IMG_4404.jpg   IMG_4406.jpg  
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:13 PM   #10
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How well you did depends on what you paid for it. If you're happy that's should be all that matters. When you research the transmission you will likely not like what you find. Not a bad tranny for it's intended purpose (bus route), but certainly not desirable. In all my bus life so far I have never heard anyone say "I really want an AT545".
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:35 PM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
Well that's not what I wanted to hear. What exactly is not desirable about it?

On the plus side we only paid $3000 plus a bass and amp I only had $200 in. I am pretty happy with the price since the seats had already been removed.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:49 PM   #12
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Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
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Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
The 545 doesn't have any lock-up gears so its slipping all the time.. Which works against you on the highway, especially up big hills. Mostly you're going to be making a bunch of extra heat (and if you don't manage the heat, you can fry your tranny) and that heat is created by wasting power that would be otherwise help with getting you up a hill.

They're great for around town and adequate for highway if you're not in a hurry or trying to tow. I did a lap around the US with its even wimpier little brother, the At542, and recently bought a bigger bu with an T545. It's not the best thing but it can do the job.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:59 AM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
I appreciate you giving me the heads up on the transmission. I read a few threads on transmission choices and I think I am going to stick with this one for a while. It is working well and I will just deal with the negatives and enjoy the reliability for now. This is our first bus conversion so I am going to chalk this one up to the learners curve. I'm not a big fan of driving around mountains anyway. Would there be any benefit to a differently geared rear end? Or removing the governor?
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:09 AM   #14
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If your new bus is a 1996 T444E with 11r tires and at545 and 4.44 rear end, I'd guess you've got a cruising speed around 65? You'll have a software speed limiter which can be reprogrammed but if it's already above 65 you're not going to gain anything on flat ground. I got Christopher to up mine to 75mph which really only does anything when reaching the bottom of a steep hill, my flat ground cruising speed is more like 55.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:12 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
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Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
You've got everything right. It got to 65 no problem on flat ground on the way home. I had the pedal at about half staff and just to test to see if it had a governor I floored it for a few seconds. The engine was definitely doing more work because it got way louder, but it never did anything above 64-65 mph. I have a friend that is going to take the governor off for me when he has time to. I don't plan on cruising above 65-70 much except for going through cities. I don't want to be stuck at 65 while the rest of traffic is going 80. It seems like a bad idea.
But either way it definitely had a hard time with going up hills. Actually anything that was not flat or down hill lol. The slightest incline meant that I lost speed. That's not due to the governor right? That is just how the bus will be due to the At545. If so that's acceptable. We plan on driving long distances but then spending a lot of time parked. We plan on hauling a small truck i.e. ranger, or an SUV like a 90's 4runner for our grocery runs and exploring once we park at home base. I'm hoping that since it is not much weight and will be right behind the back of the bus it won't cause a lot of change with the speed. How naive am I?
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:37 PM   #16
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Yeah, your hill climbing issues are a combination of having an AT545 and the reality of driving a 10 ton bus with a 175-190hp engine. THe governer is just a software setting that stops spraying fuel when you reach a certain speed.

What were your RPMs like at highway speed? You should have a redline around 2500-2600. I'd expect you to be pretty close to that at 65. Running at or near the maximums is bad for the life expectancy o the drivetrain. The AT545 and T444E are both really reliable until you get them hot, and the heat curve gets really steep at the end there.

Some people tow with that combination. If you take a 72 passenger bus and remove the passengers (50 pounds each * 72) and remove the seats (50 pounds each * 24), your empty bus is moving 4800 pounds less than it was designed for. You might choose to use that weight difference for towing, personally I'm using mine to stay light and hopefully reduce wear and tear. if you do tow with it, it's a given you should add a transmission cooler or you might never hit the top of your first big hill.

I actually looked a lot at finding a small vehicle I could reasonably tow with 4 wheels down, something like a Suzuki Samurai or Chevy Tracker is light enough that maybe I wouldn't worry too much.. But vehicles that you can tow 4-down are becoming more and more rare and aren't getting any lighter. I have a Honda Reflex scooter that I mount on a rail instead.

Always remember when thinking about your bus' capabilities that you bought it after its normal service life. It's not a brand new bus making brand new bus power with brand new bus durability. Driving kids around and constant start/stop is a much harder life than the same setup in a highway cruiser. Racking up a mile a minute on the interstate holding within a 100 rpm range or so is far easier than trawling through 20mph neighborhoods for 4 hours a day while only adding 30 miles to the meter.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:39 PM   #17
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I doubt you can get the bus to go much faster with higher speed gear ratio.

I purchased a bus with basically the same spe'c's as yours. On the flat I could maintain 60-65 MPH.

When a big truck would pass me and I could slip in behind him and draft I could get the speed up to the truck's speed until I got to the first little hill. At that point there wasn't enough HP and torque left to keep me up to the truck's speed and I would drop out of draft. At that point I was back to 60-65 MPH.

It has nothing to do with the governor but everything to do with it takes a certain amount of HP and torque to get a bus up to speed and to keep it at that speed.

The T444E is a great engine. In some applications IHC boosted the ratings up to 250 HP. But the most common are in the 190-210 HP range. And at those HP ratings you just don't have enough HP to push the brick through the air any faster.

If you want to go faster you need a bigger engine with more HP and torque.

Swapping the engine and transmission you have for more HP and torque is going to cost more than another bus with the big HP and torque would cost.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:18 PM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
Year: 1996
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: 7.3 international
I can't say thanks enough for the feedback! I know that this information is all on this site, but you guys are saving me a ton of time on digging through it all. I was really thinking about getting a tracker because they aren't hard to find around here, but I plan on traveling with my wife and our three 50+ pound dogs so I need something big enough to put them in also. I'm really leaning toward a ranger with a bed cover at the moment because I'm guessing it would be lighter than a SUV, but I haven't actually put any research into it yet. That step is still several months away. I'm still in the drawing board phase. But we love our bus and when it's cool enough we sit in it and dream lot. I think we will be happy with it when we get on the road. Until then I am going to keep pouring over this site as much as I can.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:59 PM   #19
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Engine: Cummins 5.9
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It's not as obvious as you'd hope, picking a dinghy (toad). Used to be you could get any manual or 4x4, shift trans (or transfer case) to neutral, and off you go.

This is a very handy site: Downloadable Dinghy Guides | MotorHome Magazine
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