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Old 03-15-2017, 12:58 PM   #1
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Question rear wheel seal info please

i have a leaking rear wheel seal and i am gathering up the tools for the job. the rear wheel setup is a duelly. the tire size is 225/70/19.5. ive watched several online videos of people doing this repair, some of which just use a hammer and screwdriver to take off/install the large nuts inside the hub; some use a large 3 to 4 inch socket. no one says the size though. im trying to find this socket, preferably before i take the wheel off. i wonder is there a way to know before taking that wheel off what size these large nuts are?
also, where could i source this socket besides online, as adding another week of wait time basically means another months payment at a storage space im trying to empty out in another state. i checked flaps and they only seemed to have it for smaller vehicles.

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Old 03-15-2017, 01:03 PM   #2
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A socket that size is going to cost several hundred dollars for something you will use only once.

Call your local school district and speak to a mechanic, they may suprise you.

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Old 03-15-2017, 01:42 PM   #3
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ive seen them on ebay for 20 to 50bux. but waiting up to another week on delivery would equal 140 bux more for another month of storage. but u are right, i may need to branch out in my thinking besides just "where/how to buy". i may have to talk a school bus or big rig mechanic into renting the socket.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:55 PM   #4
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Go to Autozone or about any auto part store. They usually have free rental tools for odd stuff like this. Typically, they charge you full price for the tool as a deposit, then return it once you are done.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:58 PM   #5
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Have you checked Harbor Freight? just a thought.
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Old 03-15-2017, 03:55 PM   #6
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Auto parts stores that carry some truck parts often have a punched out version of that socket that's not real expensive.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:39 PM   #7
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Most rear wheel seals are not torqued down enough to need anything much more than a screwdriver,chisel and hammer to take off or put back on. The nut is usually a castle nut with a cotter pin through it to hold the nut where you set it.
The reason being is that it and the washer are there to hold the hub and with a spindle bearing in place and if it is to tight the bearing can't turn.
You only tighten it up enough that you have some resistance on the hub when you turn it.
Or so my old school mechanics said to tighten up to where you can turn it by hand but if you can use one hand and spin it like a top its to loose so tighten it up until that top doesn't make one complete turn with one hand.
Maybe that's understandable? It was to me at the time with the mess in my hands and the boss man telling/showing what to do.
I would also replace or at pull and grease that bearing while I was that close to it.
Even a brand new bearing needs to be packed with grease so if your original one looks good then just pull it and pack it with some fresh stuff.
For a seal driver you can use a piece of pipe the size of your seal. Not the inner size?
The outer part of the seal is a flange so that won't get you anywhere. The seal has a section that is friction fit into the axle so that is where the seal driver/installer tool thingy needs to fit. For example. I pulled my old seal and the backside/friction fit part of it measured 3-5/8" so when I put the new one back in I used a standard piece of 3" schedule 40 PVC pipe that I had that measured 3-1/8" inside and 3-3/4" outside (Steel pipe has the same measurement) and can be used to drive the seal in. Your hammer blows need to go Katty korner just like a torque pattern but as long as once you get it started and drive it in evenly you'll be good to go.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #8
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I bought a 3.25“ (I think) socket to take the bearing retaining nuts off when I did my axle seals. It cost all of $32 CAD at the local heavy duty parts shop. Traction was where I bought it, but I'd expect fleet pride, an international dealer, or a heavy duty parts Napa to have them in stock.

I outlined the process near the end of my build thread. It's not quite the same as on a pickup truck, but similar.. Easier, in fact, except for the weight of the parts!

PS a greased up sheet of plywood will be your best friend if you don't feel like dismantling the whole dually assembly, which you don't have to do.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomehome View Post
im trying to find this socket, preferably before i take the wheel off. i wonder is there a way to know before taking that wheel off what size these large nuts are?
If you want to be certain of the size you can do one of two things:
1. Bring your VIN to an International dealer. They should be able to do a lookup for the axle nuts.
2. You have to remove the axle shaft before doing anything else, so just pop that fella out and measure the nut. There are likely 8 nuts holding the axle flange on. It'll slide out without needing to dismantle anything in the diff, though you'll want to drain the diff first so as to not make a giant mess. You can see in the picture below that I didn't drain the diff first and had to catch as much as I could in that milk carton. I emptied one or two times and made a mess


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Old 03-16-2017, 01:38 PM   #10
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so what would the greased up piece of plywood be handy for? so i can take the axle out and do the wheel seal without taking the brakes and the wheels off? hmm.
so in that same duelly axle, my inner tire i have to take off and replace anyway. does it make it easier to do the wheel seal with the wheels and brakes off?
also, do i have to take the brakes off to change out that back tire? i think i have pads and a rotor, which ive done on smaller vehicles, but all the videos on utube of changing brakes on large vehicles show drum type brakes. ive cleaned them off some and they look like there's still plenty of life left in the pads, so i'd like to not open that can of worms if i dont have to.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:38 PM   #11
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A good size pipe wrench will loosen those large nuts holding the bearing in because they're not very tight. Often the nut can be removed by hand after the cotter pin has been removed.

Old school mechanics were usually taught to use a brass drift to install seals. It's not that difficult if you've seen it done, but working alone on a seal for the first time might be daunting. You can destroy the seal while attempting to install it. This is something most backyard mechanics can easily do.
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:11 PM   #12
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Being that it is a full sized bus, and he's working on the rear wheel, It's not going to have a cotter pin arrangement. It's likely to have a dual nut system that either uses a tang washer or dowel washer(sometimes both) to keep the adjustment. As far as preload is concerned, the only way to do it accurately with a 100% success rate is by measuring end play. Checking it by spins or by "feel" rely heavily upon the bearing condition and shouldn't be used.

Here is the adjustment steps from timken which will usually get it done.
http://www.timken.com/pdf/10410_Manu...ll%20Sheet.pdf

You can get by with hammers/drifts but the socket makes it easier.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:43 PM   #13
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Oh yeah.

Sorry, just another brain fart I guess. I thought someone was talking about getting the large 3.25" socket.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomehome View Post
so what would the greased up piece of plywood be handy for? so i can take the axle out and do the wheel seal without taking the brakes and the wheels off? hmm.
Sliding the dual wheels + hub out from under the bus. It's how a heavy duty mechanic friend of mine does the job when he's out working on logging trucks. Works like a charm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomehome View Post
so in that same duelly axle, my inner tire i have to take off and replace anyway. does it make it easier to do the wheel seal with the wheels and brakes off?
If you're replacing the inner wheel anyway you can dismantle the whole assembly. It'll make things lighter and easier to maneuver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomehome View Post
also, do i have to take the brakes off to change out that back tire? i think i have pads and a rotor, which ive done on smaller vehicles, but all the videos on utube of changing brakes on large vehicles show drum type brakes. ive cleaned them off some and they look like there's still plenty of life left in the pads, so i'd like to not open that can of worms if i dont have to.
Disc or drum brakes? I can't speak for drum, but if you have disc brakes then you'll probably have to take the caliper out with the hub.

As mentioned previously, I did the job last summer. Check out page 20 of my build page for pictures. It's much easier than explaining. You may not have Dayton's (spoke style wheels), but everything other than the wheels are held together the same.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:49 PM   #15
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yea, they are the pad/rotor kind of brakes.
thats very useful info. i bookmarked your thread. i hope i dont have to take my leaf springs off tho.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:46 PM   #16
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I hope i dont have to take my leaf springs off tho.
You don't have to take them off. That was a job I had planned on doing for a while that was easiest while the wheels were off..
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:08 AM   #17
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where are u guys putting your jack stands? i got a 6 ton jack stand but dont see anywhere it would fit at its lowest setting.
and where is the point u are putting your jack? is it okay to put the jack under the differential? or would the weight damage it?
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:14 AM   #18
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I don't mean to be rude, welcomehome, but I'm getting the impression you don't have much experience working on vehicles. If that's the case I would strongly encourage you to employ the help of an expert, whether it be a friend or a paid professional.

This is a big, heavy job. There's lots of potential for being crushed or catastrophic failure while driving on the road.

Now, if I'm way off base and you'll be proceeding on your own then I'll recommend this for jacking the bus. Chock the front wheels. Jack under the axle close to the wheel you want lifted. I used solid concrete blocks topped with a chunk of 2x6 to support the axle. The footprint and height of jack stands will be a problem. You only need the wheels just off the ground.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:25 AM   #19
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If you need to do both sides, only Jack one at a time. You are going to lose some gear oil from the diff, but if one side is higher than the other less will leak out.
It isn't like a car/lt truck. The axle is only turning the hub. The hub supports the weight of the vehicle. You can drain the pumpkin before you do the job to save on leakage, just make sure whichever​ you do, that you refill back to the proper level.
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:09 AM   #20
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well i finally got the wheel seal off after using a crowbar. i ended up taking the rotor off which looked like me pushing a 6 foot cheater bar in a circle like a maypole. that rotor was held onto the hub with ten 22mm nuts with a heck of a lotta torque. i had taken the hub off and put it on one of the wheels so the bolts would go in their holes and hold it relatively in place for me. my friend helped me hold the wheel from spinning as i worked the 6 ft cheater bar attached to the wrench and socket. im sure it was the long way of doing it but getting that rotor out of the way gave me the clearance i liked to really get up close to that wheel seal.
btw, i walked into fleetpride and they had a nice assortment of larger size spindle nut sockets. my axle nuts required a 3.5 inch socket which barely fit inside my hub when i got it back to the bus. it did fit tho and im glad i got the right tool for the job. and at $17 i thought it was priced fairly as well.
im wondering what u guys suggest for gear oil to replace what ive lost? thank you
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