Reliability advice?

[Thomas1985]

Hey guys,

I'm still on my search for a new bus. Last year I was after a forty foot Bluebird with a Cummins 8.3 that fell through my fingers. As of now our needs have changed. We are going to keep our mid size E450 and find a class A short bus with our wheelchair lift in the front as a daily driver.
I really want a 350 Chevy because it is so reliable and I've been having troubles with my E450. What I have found is a 92 6.2 Diesel automatic with OD..
I'm interested in anyone's opinions about the engine and what possible transmission that would be. From what I've been reading it seems underpowered and sluggish but has great fuel economy? This would be in my everyday driver as well as highway travel vehicle.
I'm a little hesitant to purchasing a diesel because I'm in a wheelchair and couldn't get out work on it. My girlfriend is always driving and we broke down last week 700 miles from home. Some awesome Minnesota citizens helped us out in a parking lot but I don't know if that could have been possible if we had been driving a diesel. Reliability is my biggest concern for the both of us.
Thanks for your input.

-Thomas

[chev49]

Originally Posted by Thomas1985

Hey guys,

I'm still on my search for a new bus. Last year I was after a forty foot Bluebird with a Cummins 8.3 that fell through my fingers. As of now our needs have changed. We are going to keep our mid size E450 and find a class A short bus with our wheelchair lift in the front as a daily driver.
I really want a 350 Chevy because it is so reliable and I've been having troubles with my E450. What I have found is a 92 6.2 Diesel automatic with OD..
I'm interested in anyone's opinions about the engine and what possible transmission that would be. From what I've been reading it seems underpowered and sluggish but has great fuel economy? This would be in my everyday driver as well as highway travel vehicle.
I'm a little hesitant to purchasing a diesel because I'm in a wheelchair and couldn't get out work on it. My girlfriend is always driving and we broke down last week 700 miles from home. Some awesome Minnesota citizens helped us out in a parking lot but I don't know if that could have been possible if we had been driving a diesel. Reliability is my biggest concern for the both of us.
Thanks for your input.

-Thomas

There can be reliability issues with ANY diesel. The 6.2 has its own issues just like any other diesel. For example, head crack coz of inadquate engineering... Injector pump problems, but they are only $500 or so for new one, and if turbo, ... The fuel filter always needs to be clean, not to mention the line to the injector pump checked and water pump which is hard for some to change.. With a gas engine like a 350 one can sometimes keep it running even if there is a problem. With a diesel like the 6.2, it aint moving if there is a problem.
I have had a newer 6.2, i changed pump, lines, sensors and added the new cooling system part before I used it... Reason being, my next door machine shop owner Steve broke two cylinder heads on his coz of the poor cooling and I think the vehicle is still sitting in the brush as I type...

[Thomas1985]

Interesting...

[cadillackid]

two things diesels are UNforgiving about..

Oiling and cooling...

must have good lubrication with the high compression we see..

and must have good cooling again related to the high compression.. cylinder head torques are high, and with requiring extra high compression, any defect in a cylinder head due to heat deformation results in blowing out the head gasket or worse, a cracked head..

fueling is fueling.. the injectors and pump need to be in good shape and perfect timing to run good and not wash out the rings.

-Christopher

[brokedown]

I had the 6.2 diesel in a CUCV and I loved it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. The problem areas are well known and the parts are cheap and easy to find.

[chev49]

and even the new design 6.2 heads have problems even when u deck the block n torque correctly...been there

[jctrembly]

Or you could pull the 6.2 and put in a 6.5. I know it has it's problems but. I also know they really don't like JP-8 as it really made the HP fuel pump warm.

The electric control module can be remote mounted and I think it used fuel to cool it, but it didn't cool it enough. I have a kit for that, I almost bought a bus with a 6.5l. Got the kit to install when I picked it up, then last minute something changed and didn't buy the bus, but still have the kit. Anyone interested?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[brokedown]

I met a guy who was retrofitting the 6.2 injection pump on the 6.5, he was getting non-running 6.5 buses with bad injection pumps for a bargain.

[cowlitzcoach]

In the school bus world you will NOT find a Type 'A' bus with a front mounted lift. It all has to do with emergency exits, aisle width, etc.

In the commercial bus world there are a lot of front mounted lifts on van/cut-away chassis. Different rules and regulations apply.

Both the Type 'A' and commercial buses were available with a flat floor option. It makes having more than one or two wheelchairs stations feasible in a small bus.

Most Type 'B' lift equipped school buses have the lift mounted in the front just behind the service door. The vast majority of those buses were built on the GM/Workhorse P-30 chassis. It is basically the same chassis that has been used under a gazillion RV's, bread trucks, delivery trucks, etc. In buses the most common gas engine was the 350/5.7L gas V-8 and either the 6.2L or 6.5L diesel V-8. I have never seen a school bus with the 7.4L while most RV's had the 7.4L.

Most 6.2L and early model 6.5L had the 700R4 transmission. The 700R4 is basically a Turbohydramatic 400 with a lockup torque convertor giving you an OD in 3rd gear. Newer models will have the 4L60 which is a mostly electronically controlled transmission. Newer still will have the 4L80 or the 6L80. All of those transmissions are very tough, dependable, and long lived transmissions. Unlike the Fords that have the E4OD/4R100 which were built out of glass or spun sugar--they have a very bad reputation, especially bad when it is behind a diesel engine.

The 6.5L in a Type 'B' chassis is not the orphan that the 6.5L is when it is in a Type 'A' chassis. There is quite a bit of aftermarket support for the P-30 chassis so you can get parts that will fit that will not fit in the van/cut-away chassis.

[chev49]

the ECM... forgot to mention that in my post on this... is one of the first things to do

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

In the school bus world you will NOT find a Type 'A' bus with a front mounted lift. It all has to do with emergency exits, aisle width, etc.

In the commercial bus world there are a lot of front mounted lifts on van/cut-away chassis. Different rules and regulations apply.

Both the Type 'A' and commercial buses were available with a flat floor option. It makes having more than one or two wheelchairs stations feasible in a small bus.

Most Type 'B' lift equipped school buses have the lift mounted in the front just behind the service door. The vast majority of those buses were built on the GM/Workhorse P-30 chassis. It is basically the same chassis that has been used under a gazillion RV's, bread trucks, delivery trucks, etc. In buses the most common gas engine was the 350/5.7L gas V-8 and either the 6.2L or 6.5L diesel V-8. I have never seen a school bus with the 7.4L while most RV's had the 7.4L.

Most 6.2L and early model 6.5L had the 700R4 transmission. The 700R4 is basically a Turbohydramatic 400 with a lockup torque convertor giving you an OD in 3rd gear. Newer models will have the 4L60 which is a mostly electronically controlled transmission. Newer still will have the 4L80 or the 6L80. All of those transmissions are very tough, dependable, and long lived transmissions. Unlike the Fords that have the E4OD/4R100 which were built out of glass or spun sugar--they have a very bad reputation, especially bad when it is behind a diesel engine.

The 6.5L in a Type 'B' chassis is not the orphan that the 6.5L is when it is in a Type 'A' chassis. There is quite a bit of aftermarket support for the P-30 chassis so you can get parts that will fit that will not fit in the van/cut-away chassis.

my 1991 carpenter on a navistar 3800 chassis.. 7 window had its wheel chair lift on the right just behind the service door...
-Christopher

[jctrembly]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

my 1991 carpenter on a navistar 3800 chassis.. 7 window had its wheel chair lift on the right just behind the service door...
-Christopher

I have seen a few, (very few) but I'm sure those are special ordered for some reason. Some school districts order odd things, untill recently, all of our busses had 6-8 E-Exit windows. You won't find that in many other areas.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[cadillackid]

its a setup i really like.. I dont need it for handicap purposes.. but when im out and about on a DEV trip.. I stop someplace.. swing that door open, and ive got a couple seats there.. so I can sit there on the laptop and work with the door wide open.

i took the lift itself out.. ive actually seen a few around ohio.. so it could be a state related thing.
-Christopher

[Thomas1985]

Thanks for the information but this thread has kind of wandered off. I am interested in reliability information between the 6.2 diesel and the gas 350

[cowlitzcoach]

I think the OP was talking about a bus on an E-350/450 or G-3500/4500 chassis which is a Type 'A' bus. In a school bus configuration they will not have a forward mounted lift. Even if they have a flat floor.

Type 'B' buses (mostly GM/Workhorse P-30 chassis) and Type 'C' buses (conventional medium duty truck chassis) can have the lift anywhere in front of or behind the rear axle. The only limiting factor is how much space there is between the service door and the rear axle or between the rear axle and the rear bulkhead.

[cowlitzcoach]

Originally Posted by Thomas1985

Thanks for the information but this thread has kind of wandered off. I am interested in reliability information between the 6.2 diesel and the gas 350

The small block Chevy V-8 in 350/5.7L/6.0L is a real champion when it comes to durability. In bus use it is not unusual for the newer electronically fuel injected engines going well in excess of 350,000 miles without any significant problems. Typical wear items like water pumps, alternators, and A/C compressors will need to be changed out over time but that is sort of expected.

The 6.2L diesel V-8 is good for about the same number of miles given even minimal care. The bio-blended low sulfur diesel that we have to use these days doesn't seem to bother the mechanically controlled pump and injectors as long as it is clean and water free. The only down side of the 6.2L is it is no kind of powerhouse in stock form and turning up the power reduces reliability and endurance exponentially.

[cadillackid]

I'd take a 350 any day, for one , they are made in every form mold to wild, most parts for their core and accessory systems is on the shelf at auto parts stores.. even the computers. If you do blow one up or wear it out, many reasonable cost options exist for replacement.

A lot depends on the miles you plan to travel.. if you are a 1000 mile per year traveler, the lower mileage of a 350 is less noticeable, if you are running 25000 a year then the increased mileage of a 6.2 begins to add up. In general diesel fuel is 10-20 percent more expensive.

In the gas world a modern objected 350 will have more longevity than a carbed one. The cleaner fuel burnnot only helps mpg it also helps the engine run better.. less spark knock, more even cylinder temps.
Christopher

[chev49]

6.2 has its own set of issues that we have previously discussed. i have one, n worked on several others. however, perfer it to the 350 gas which we used to put in custom cars...