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10-18-2019, 08:41 AM
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#1
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Shorty MD-3060 swap?
Good morning Everyone,
I am contemplating the idea of swapping a six speed transmission into a 5.9/545 equipped short bus. I was looking at 1000 & 2000's and found MD-3060's cheaper and closer to home. I know that there are factory equipped buses with the 5.9 and 3060 so the parts and pieces should be available. Why not?
One big question for you all who have done transmission swaps on shorties:
Do you think that there is enough room to stuff an MD-3060 into a typical 6-7 window bus?
Any other potential issues?
Another question just occurred to me. Is it worthwhile to buy a Rustbelt bus for engine and transmission parts? Or do you find rust causing drive train issues?
Thanks.
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10-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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for a 3000 series swap you will need some more parts than for a 1000/2000 swap..
most every 3060 ive seen has used a secondary mount..
you'll need the proper flexplate and spacer for the 3000 on your engine..
pay attention to the WTEC.. a WTEC III unit needs an electronic engine with a J1939 link.
... if your 5.9 is a 6BT then. you will be stuck with a WTEC-II (almost no one;s scan tools can scan WTEC-II stuff.. allison doesnt even like to touch them)
if you are obtaining a 3060 that was once on a school bus you still need to get it unlocked for 6th gear..
you'll need a TCM from the same engine type so the RPM and shift curves are the same
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10-19-2019, 11:47 AM
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#3
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
for a 3000 series swap you will need some more parts than for a 1000/2000 swap..
most every 3060 ive seen has used a secondary mount..
you'll need the proper flexplate and spacer for the 3000 on your engine..
pay attention to the WTEC.. a WTEC III unit needs an electronic engine with a J1939 link.
... if your 5.9 is a 6BT then. you will be stuck with a WTEC-II (almost no one;s scan tools can scan WTEC-II stuff.. allison doesnt even like to touch them)
if you are obtaining a 3060 that was once on a school bus you still need to get it unlocked for 6th gear..
you'll need a TCM from the same engine type so the RPM and shift curves are the same
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The outfit that has the 3060's is parting out buses. They list the VIN of the donor vehicle. I suspect that I may be able to get the TCM from the same bus that the transmission came out of.
The secondary transmission support could be a problem.
The 3060 that I was looking at was behind a DT-466e. Looking to put it behind a Cummins ISB. Would the programming be close enough?
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10-19-2019, 03:03 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Im not sure of the throttle map of the 466 vs 5.9.. didnt brokedown just buy a 5.9 with an MD3060? maybe he can be talked into copying his TCM.. although its still not 6 gears I dont believe... so we still need to find a 5.9 with all 6 gears and then spread it amongst friends!
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10-20-2019, 03:14 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
Im not sure of the throttle map of the 466 vs 5.9.. didnt brokedown just buy a 5.9 with an MD3060? maybe he can be talked into copying his TCM.. although its still not 6 gears I dont believe... so we still need to find a 5.9 with all 6 gears and then spread it amongst friends!
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Sort-of like a skoolie virus!
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10-20-2019, 08:10 AM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native
Sort-of like a skoolie virus!
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yeah! a good one at that...
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10-20-2019, 10:19 AM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Native
Sort-of like a skoolie virus!
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........................  ..................
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11-27-2019, 10:13 AM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mid Mo.
Posts: 872
Year: 1976
Coachwork: bluebird
Chassis: F33695
Engine: 427 chevy converted to 466
Rated Cap: 84
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ECMking can reprogram your TCM, they did mine.
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11-27-2019, 11:58 AM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick
ECMking can reprogram your TCM, they did mine.
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Contact info?
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11-27-2019, 12:36 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Grayson County, VA
Posts: 1,428
Year: 1996
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 65
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11-27-2019, 12:58 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Bru
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Just got off the phone with them and while they say they can do it, they want $400 to do it. I suppose not unreasonable for the outcome.
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11-27-2019, 01:15 PM
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#12
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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the average cost at a dealer seems to be $300-$400 plus a ton of paperwork... 400 seems fair and no paperwork
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11-27-2019, 01:25 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
the average cost at a dealer seems to be $300-$400 plus a ton of paperwork... 400 seems fair and no paperwork
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This was based on my tcm being a wtecll. Did we verify my 99 is a ll?
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12-02-2019, 09:19 AM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
the average cost at a dealer seems to be $300-$400 plus a ton of paperwork... 400 seems fair and no paperwork
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Very fair! Wish I could squeeze a 6th o/d out of my allison 2000 so easily...
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12-02-2019, 09:56 AM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
This was based on my tcm being a wtecll. Did we verify my 99 is a ll?
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a 99 should be a WTEC-III
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12-02-2019, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,835
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman
Very fair! Wish I could squeeze a 6th o/d out of my allison 2000 so easily...
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to make your 2k 6 speed requires a valve body upgrade, a couple solenoids, new wiring harness and 4th gen TCM ...
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12-02-2019, 10:36 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,056
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
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Just saw on craigslist there's a shop in Orlando selling reman MD3060s for $2000. Compared to used prices I've seen that seems pretty good. And I still haven't located my TCM but I also haven't really tried to find it again...
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12-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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#18
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: lake elsinore ca
Posts: 105
Year: 1954
Coachwork: crown
Engine: 220 cummins turbo
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I will chime in on this.. i pulled my 3060 from a 5.9 that was mechanical ( engine ) and i had to get the entire wiring harness,tps and computer. It’s was not a easy deal and I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have some good knowledge and help. I really feel i got lucky after I finally got it to light up lol.. i have a cid for A 6 speed behind a Detroit if anyone needs it.
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12-24-2019, 08:35 PM
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#19
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50 crown
I will chime in on this.. i pulled my 3060 from a 5.9 that was mechanical ( engine ) and i had to get the entire wiring harness,tps and computer. It’s was not a easy deal and I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have some good knowledge and help. I really feel i got lucky after I finally got it to light up lol.. i have a cid for A 6 speed behind a Detroit if anyone needs it.
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That has my interest. Which Detroit?
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12-24-2019, 10:28 PM
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#20
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: lake elsinore ca
Posts: 105
Year: 1954
Coachwork: crown
Engine: 220 cummins turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
the average cost at a dealer seems to be $300-$400 plus a ton of paperwork... 400 seems fair and no paperwork
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My Allison dealer was 150.00 bucks and if you just take a CID number and ack like your just reprogramming your “ replacement ecm they never asked me any questions
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