Suspension

[ssm2]

Hey all,

So I am seriously considering purchasing a school bus for my family. I have been doing quite a bit of research, but I am curious as to the suspension aspect of the bus. A close contact of mine has been RV'ing for 40 years, and when I bring up the idea of converting a school bus, he raises many concerns. First, he states that the suspension of a school bus makes for a horrible ride long distances. He states this from experience being a school bus driver for church for 20 years. This may be a somewhat noob question, but would air ride work for a school bus, or is the ride on a freeway not as bad as he is portraying. How is the ride on a freeway?

In addition, he states that the diesels get destroyed very quickly because busses are geared for streets and take a beating. For whatever its worth, I feel it would be so much more beneficial to ask a community dedicated to skoolies. Please share your thoughts.

Thank you.

[EastCoastCB]

Both my buses have air ride. I wouldn't convert a bus that had leaf springs after riding in these.

[DoubleO7]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Both my buses have air ride. I wouldn't convert a bus that had leaf springs after riding in these.

rear axle air ride, correct?
are there school bus that are equipped with air ride on all axles?
I have not seen one yet.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by DoubleO7

rear axle air ride, correct?
are there school bus that are equipped with air ride on all axles?
I have not seen one yet.

Rear air ride.
I've heard of some with air bags on all four corners, but never seen one myself.

Go for rear air ride and an air seat for the driver (or add the seat). Will make you WANT to drive a bus for miles.
SERIOUSLY here- I can drive my shorty with air rear and seat for HOURS and hours. its more comfortable to drive than my 2013 Subaru Crosstrek. God I hate that car!

[Asetechrail]

If there is any way you can find to ride on both I would do that! My bus does not have air ride but drives out just fine. I do have an air ride drivers seat. I really do not like the air ride seat, perhaps it takes getting used to, as it bounces up and down enough to throw you out of the seat if not careful. I'm taking mine out and putting in a nice captains chair out of a van.

I guess if I had rear air ride it might not bounce as much!!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Asetechrail

If there is any way you can find to ride on both I would do that! My bus does not have air ride but drives out just fine. I do have an air ride drivers seat. I really do not like the air ride seat, perhaps it takes getting used to, as it bounces up and down enough to throw you out of the seat if not careful. I'm taking mine out and putting in a nice captains chair out of a van.

I guess if I had rear air ride it might not bounce as much!!

Stupid question- have you tried adjusting the seat? There's an air bag and you can make them rock solid if you push the valve/switch.

[Asetechrail]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Stupid question- have you tried adjusting the seat? There's an air bag and you can make them rock solid if you push the valve/switch.

I adjusted it down to the point that it was "rock solid" not much use as an air ride at that point. It was ok after that but the captains chairs are much more comfy.

[cowlitzcoach]

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in school buses from high end Crown and Gillig buses with three axles to crappy little buses that have been worn out and beat to pieces.

Yes some of them have ridden a little hard.

Yes some of them leave a lot to be desired compared to a motorcoach on a full air ride suspension.

But I would not let a spring suspension deter you from purchasing a used school bus to convert into your tiny house on wheels.

IC has had air ride standard on the rear of all of the RE buses since about 1999. It was optional before then and air ride on the rear of all of their buses has been optional since IC was AmTrans. Front air ride has not been optional quite as long and it is rarely ordered as it really doesn't make that much difference in ride if you have rear air ride.

If you have an air ride seat and it is bucking you off of it as you going down the road you don't have enough air pressure in the seat. For a large economy sized guy like me I have to pump the pressure almost all the way to the top. If I don't, when I hit a bump the seat will bottom out and that really hurts the back when the seat hits the bottom of travel. Most gals and smaller guys will adjust their seats much softer since their body weight won't bottom out the seat until the air pressure is much lower. The end result is pretty much the same--smooth ride and all of the hard bumps and jounces are absorbed by the shock absorber on the seat.

The seat needs to be soft enough that it isn't rigid--what's the point of an air ride seat if it can't move?

The seat needs to be stiff enough that the seat never bottoms out.

There is a shock absorber on the air ride seats that can wear out over time. Replacing the worn out shock absorber will greatly improve your seats ability to smooth out the bumps.

As far as diesels get destroyed pretty quickly... I have been in the bus business more than 40-years now. I have seen them all and I have a pretty strong opinion on a lot of the boat anchor excuses for engines that have been foisted off onto the school bus market. Most buses are purchased by people whose only connection to the bus garage is they pay the bills. As a consequence a lot of engines were put into school buses because the bus builders could get them cheap and the people purchasing the buses had no real idea as to what they were purchasing. Fast forward to this century and school buses are still the dumping ground for a lot of parts and pieces that no one else can use. Some of those parts and pieces include some real bad boat anchor engines whose reliability and durability really went downhill when the 2007 emissions became mandatory nationwide.

Almost any Cummins 5.9L/6BT/ISB/6.7L and 8.3L/6CT/ISC engine is a great engine. Almost any IHC DT360/408/466/530 or T444 engine is a great engine. Most of those engines will go 300K without any problems. Some have been known to go 500K without any real problems, although that is getting on the far side of expectations in a school bus.

If I was looking to purchase a good bus to convert right now the two buses I would look to purchase would be the IC RE with the DT530 or a Thomas West-Coast-ER with the Cummins 8.3L. I would focus in on the years 1995-2001. Much older and you will find the nicer options like air ride very hard to find. Much newer and you start getting into full electronics with multiplexed electrical systems. I personally do not like Blue Bird buses for a variety of reasons, most of which are Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge sort of reasons.

Good luck and I hope you find the right bus for you!

[jctrembly]

DT530 in an IC RE.... That would be nice.

I have 2000 DT466 250hp High Torque and that does good, a 530 would feel like a dragster

I agree with the age range, stay away from anything with emission controls. Roughly 2003 and newer.

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[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jctrembly

DT530 in an IC RE.... That would be nice.

I have 2000 DT466 250hp High Torque and that does good, a 530 would feel like a dragster

I agree with the age range, stay away from anything with emission controls. Roughly 2003 and newer.

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I've asked a guy who's dealt with a couple buses with 530's. he says stick with the 466 ht. You got a badass bus!

Totally agreed- I avoid anything 2004 or newer, generally at least.

[Iceni John]

One benefit to having rear air ride is that you can level the bus side to side by changing the pressures in each sides' air bags. I wish I had rear air ride, an option for my bus, and because I'll eventually have almost 1000 lbs more on the right side I intend to install some air helper springs to level the bus. Just another job to do!

John

[jctrembly]

1000lbs on one side shouldn't make a difference at all. I could have that much with 8 kids (or less) sitting on one side next to windows. Lol

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[DoubleO7]

pretty sure my 1998 rear air ride International chassis AmTran does not allow individual airbag adjustment.
One valve between the frame and the rear axle determines how much pressure goes into the bags.

[johnbloem1974]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

One benefit to having rear air ride is that you can level the bus side to side by changing the pressures in each sides' air bags.

John

How would someone go about changing the pressure in the bags?

Thanks!

John

[cadillackid]

mild emissions controls started with the 2004 chassis model year.. some 04 busses and all the 05's.. those type emissions were not too worrisome.. the 2007 / 2008 model years started the emission controls with DPF, regen, DEF, etc.. those are the ones that can ruin an engine if they malfunction or are ill-maintained...

Air-seat. i have it in RedByrd, and not in DEV... I get bounced quite a bit in my air seat.. but thats one of the BadAss FUN!! parts of driving a bus.. bouncing in the seat going over bumps, i dig it!
-Christopher

[jctrembly]

If you look at the rear axle you will see a little ... Stick, off the rear axle that connects to the body of the bus. That is your leveling valve. In a commercial sized vehical with air ride the vehical ride height is maintained regardless of the weight because that stick allows more air (psi) in and out of the air bags depending on how much weight is loaded.

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[cadillackid]

it would theoretically be possible to use levelling switches to use the air ride to attempt to level a bus when it is parked..

However, you would need a way of keeping air in the system while parked.. if you were moving about inside the bus, the air ride will continue to try and keep the height on a single system as mentioned in the last post..

to use it as a pseudo leveller you would have to separate the bags from each other, currently on most of them there is one valve that puts air into both bags at once assuming in a standard school bus setting the load is usually fairly even side-to-side...

as a camping leveller, lacking front suspension air makes it difficult for a system to truly level your bus, though independent rear bags could surely help....

when you are driving, as mentioned, the system adds air as the rear of the bus sinks, and releases air as it rises above.. most are very very simple valves... a few of the more advanced ones have a delay system in them that only applies or releases air if the suspension changes height for an extended time like 15-30 seconds..

-Christopher

[jctrembly]

Tour buses, High end RV's and the like have a very more complex air suspension system. It also costs alot of $$$, I mean alot of $$$. On one forum a seem to remember a rebuilt Prevost valve body was around $3K. What our buses have is the same as all the tractor trailers and the like. Simple, effective, and low cost.

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[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by jctrembly

Tour buses, High end RV's and the like have a very more complex air suspension system. It also costs alot of $$$, I mean alot of $$$. On one forum a seem to remember a rebuilt Prevost valve body was around $3K. What our buses have is the same as all the tractor trailers and the like. Simple, effective, and low cost.

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yeah I replaced the valve for like $60 on my DEV bus.. and i think the air springs are only like $150 a piece or something, and those are easy to change with good jacks and jackstands
-Christopher

[jctrembly]

It looks like this was discussed some at the Wanderlodge forum. http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...hp?t-3898.html

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