T444E crank, no start

[fabrini]

I was having an issue where my bus would crank, crank, and crank, and not start. A buddy of mine is a bus mechanic and he suggested the cam sensor. I replaced it and still nothing. No smoke coming out of the tail pipe while cranking, so I assumed it was a fuel problem. I had plenty of pressure at the schrader valve but it seemed like maybe the HPOP was not helping the fuel along the rails to the injectors. My buddy the mechanic brought his scanner over and I was not throwing any codes. I started doing more research and it looked like maybe the ICP was not working correctly. I was about to call the local International dealer on Monday until I ran into a retired bus mechanic at the gas station. He said to check my coolant. I checked it, it was low, I added about 3/4 of a gallon, and guess what. The bus fired up as soon as I turned the ignition. I know I was low but never thought there was a sensor in that system that keeps the motor from starting if the coolant is below the ADD line. I was about 1/4 inch below the add line and never even realized it. Problem solved and fortunately, no repair bill!

[Brad_SwiftFur]

If you have a low coolant sensor, then you should have a low coolant light in the dash. If so, check and make sure the bulb hasn't burned out. That way you'll know next time.

[chev49]

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

If you have a low coolant sensor, then you should have a low coolant light in the dash. If so, check and make sure the bulb hasn't burned out. That way you'll know next time.

or just wire around it

[fabrini]

I've never seen it light up so it must be out. I'm surprised it didn't throw a code though. At least I don't have to spend 180 for an ICP and 220 for an IPR!

[cadillackid]

ive not seen a Low coolant light on the dash of our busses.. there is an Oil / Water alarm on the dash but according the service manuals that triggers by Low oil pressure or high water temp.

yours shows a 95 in your profile.. they used different computers than mine. so perhaps there is an inpuit? on mine there is no water level inout to the ECM..

I venture to say that it was luck of the draw.. your HPOP likely had drained down (esp if your bus sat for awhile) {i seem to remember a TSB on that in the early years).. and it takes a lot of cranking to fill the HPOP if that happens..

-Christopher

[fabrini]

Just odd. I run it a few times a week for around 30-40 mins each time and it always started within seconds of me turning the key. I looked for a low coolant light as well on the dash and don't see one on my cluster.

My bad...I just looked again shining a flashlight onto the panel and there is a low coolant light....presumably with a burned out bulb behind it! Oh well...it's just MORE money. Haha. At least this build is almost done...

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Let me know if, indeed, that low coolant light has a blown bulb. It's probably a common, inexpensive, widely available bulb that goes to it.

[cadillackid]

interesting! makes sense that the bus wouldnt start of the coolant is low.. esp on a 444E.. doesnt take much to ruin one if you overheat it..
-Christopher

[karl269]

am having the same problem with my t444e too cranks will not start

[BlackJohn]

Sounds like the engineers who designed that engine were on the ball to include a no-start condition due to low coolant. Could possibly save your engine and a lot of $$$ as well as extra maintenance. I wonder do most engines have such a feature?

John

[cadillackid]

I need to look in the computer.. I know on my bus there is not a coolant level sensor.. on the T-444E the computers changed from the 96 to the 97 model year.. it went from the "3 box" as its known to the 'Diamond Logic' as navistar called it..

its definitely a great idea.. and im guessing optional.. whats wierd about it is that it allows the engine to crank. anything else that causes a no start doesnt allow the engine to crank. being that on a 444E the fuel pump is mechanical. and the injectors are electronic.. it very well could be that the ECM just doesnt activate the fuel..

has my curiosity enough that im going to go look for the 1995 in my Service docs..
-Christopher

[2kool4skool]

Originally Posted by karl269

am having the same problem with my t444e too cranks will not start

Did you see:
I was having an issue where my bus would crank, crank, and crank, and not start. A buddy of mine is a bus mechanic and he suggested the cam sensor. I replaced it and still nothing. No smoke coming out of the tail pipe while cranking, so I assumed it was a fuel problem. I had plenty of pressure at the schrader valve but it seemed like maybe the HPOP was not helping the fuel along the rails to the injectors. My buddy the mechanic brought his scanner over and I was not throwing any codes. I started doing more research and it looked like maybe the ICP was not working correctly. I was about to call the local International dealer on Monday until I ran into a retired bus mechanic at the gas station. He said to check my coolant. I checked it, it was low, I added about 3/4 of a gallon, and guess what. The bus fired up as soon as I turned the ignition. I know I was low but never thought there was a sensor in that system that keeps the motor from starting if the coolant is below the ADD line. I was about 1/4 inch below the add line and never even realized it. Problem solved and fortunately, no repair bill!

[cadillackid]

I cant find any reference to a coolant level sensor in the books for the later model, other than there is a body-builder connector for the dash under the hood.. however thats just to light the low coolant lamp. - a sensor that could be added by anyone as aftermarket. it must have been an option on the earlier model.. my books dont go back far enough to see.. seems navistar swore off the Pre-DLC computers.. or perhaps the service manuals were all paper until after 1998. (my E-books start at 9...

-Christopher

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I need to look in the computer.. I know on my bus there is not a coolant level sensor.. on the T-444E the computers changed from the 96 to the 97 model year.. it went from the "3 box" as its known to the 'Diamond Logic' as navistar called it..

its definitely a great idea.. and im guessing optional.. whats wierd about it is that it allows the engine to crank. anything else that causes a no start doesnt allow the engine to crank. being that on a 444E the fuel pump is mechanical. and the injectors are electronic.. it very well could be that the ECM just doesnt activate the fuel..

has my curiosity enough that im going to go look for the 1995 in my Service docs..
-Christopher

At least when you hear an engine cranking, that is one less thing to contend with in a no-start situation. Keeps that diesel oiled up too enough to avoid a dry start when it does fire up.

I'm sure my bus has to have both those actions happen to start anytime, cold or hot.

John

[Njsurf73]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

Sounds like the engineers who designed that engine were on the ball to include a no-start condition due to low coolant. Could possibly save your engine and a lot of $$$ as well as extra maintenance. I wonder do most engines have such a feature?

John

It would be better if it threw a code, so you knew why it wasn't starting lol. But yeah that's actually well engineered.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[bluebird90]

One possibility is the fuel heater. If it shorts it will blow the ecm fuse. Check the fuse, if blown disconnect the fuel heater at the filter and start. Another possibility is complete failure of the glow plugs. mainly the relay.

[Pringler]

Is this in a cold start scenario or could this be the case on an 80 degree day as well?

[cadillackid]

on a day thats 50 or above i can just climb in my 444E and kcik it over without waiting.. however the glow plugs still do operate while cranking so ma not be a good test of whether it would start without them or not.

my DT-360 doesnt have glow plugs or grid heater and it just starts easily down till about 35 or 40 then it might crank a little longer.
-Christopher