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Old 01-04-2019, 09:59 AM   #21
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Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Bru View Post
Johnbloem1974 had a whole thread about swapping a MT643 into his bus after his 545 crapped out. http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/cr...out-20640.html
He seems pleased as punch with the swap.



ive done a 545 to 1000 swap on ione bus anbd a 545 to 643 swap on another.. both are like whole different busses to drive now..



in my opinion well worth the $$$ and work I put in to do those..



-Christopher

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Old 01-04-2019, 10:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Bru View Post
Johnbloem1974 had a whole thread about swapping a MT643 into his bus after his 545 crapped out. http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/cr...out-20640.html
He seems pleased as punch with the swap.
Yup!!! Been from Texas to Montana and back, then Texas to West Virginia, and still happy as hell with it! Next up is to turn up the HP a few ponies to make the long hill inclines a wee bit faster...

John
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
My short bus is on its second 545 and its only got 64k miles and 3300 hours on the bus.
Chris just wore out his 545 by using it on the interstate.
Maybe if we start driving our buses through rock quarries the 545's will live longer?
Probably longer than your bad luck seems to take you. Gene
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdog 5651 View Post
Probably longer than your bad luck seems to take you. Gene
at least two or three forum members using 545's on the highway have had failures. One guy had BOTH his 545's go out in the same year.
I'd say you're the lucky one.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
at least two or three forum members using 545's on the highway have had failures. One guy had BOTH his 545's go out in the same year.
I'd say you're the lucky one.
I don't know, I was in the repair business for many (40+) years and many of the trucks my company repaired were Allison powered the failure rate for the 545's were no higher than for the 643 of course the applications were different in most cases. the ones I spoke of earlier were the exceptions not the rule I also had found who "rebuilt" or repaired the Allison made a huge difference in their longevity.Factory remans lasted quite well and the "Best price local guy" not so much. Gene
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:59 AM   #26
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Maintenance is also a key issue.. if tyou Know you over-heated your AT545 on a mountain pass.. you get its fluid and filters changed ASAP afterwords and probably little harm done.. but many have no idea their trans overheated... and even if it did, check the fluid and assume its supposed to get dark with age because engine oil does.. even though at that point your trans is eating itself...



intended use - in town box trucks and school busses arent going to eat AT545s like if they are run across the rockies foot to the floor.. those that traverse the rockies succeasfully in their AT545s i dare say are aware of wehat they are doing and back off the throttle on the inclines.. and descend the other side with caution..



MT643s can fail too.. same thing poor fluid maintenance is going to ruin that trans too.. Navistar had a whole warehouse full of them for a reason.



my 2 failures.. as i mentioned someplace.. one is arguably maintenance.. my electrioc modulator was bad and i didnt know it... I changed it but the damage was done.. after talking to several people in-the-know they all said I ran that tranny with low line pressure even on my full throttle shifts. and over time destroyed it..



my second failure something snapped.. it was operating Perfectly... no slips, no groans, no flares, in fact it was one of the best shifting 545s i'd driven.. and it went to shift into 4th gear as i got o nthe freeway and never made the shift.. just went to N.. no carnage, griding, or fanfare.. it just died... parts can break.. from looking at its inspection plate it and metal in the pan looked like a snapring broke and the drum got loose..



the main point aboiut all of this is use the right tool for the job... the AT545 was an excellent tool for the job a school bus was intended to do.. in fact in some ways better than an MT643... a 643 locks up in 3rd.. many bus routes barely shift to 3rd before you stop again.. a 643 had all that more parts to fail in the lockup mechanism that really gave no benefit to local route use..



get out on the highway and now the role is reversed.. your MT643 provides several useful benefits over the AT545...



again what are you doing with your bus? buy the drivetrain that suits your intended use...

-Christopher
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:38 PM   #27
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This all would be a lot easier if there were semi-local buses with anything other than a 545. Closest one I've found was 3 hours away (drive), plenty in the 4+ hour range, but that's a LOT of travel to see buses until I find the right one in good shape. I've went to see a few that are within the range, but unfortunately dealers & private sellers hid quite a bit with lack of detail/photos, or just blatantly lied to me when I asked about the condition (Said running, arrived to "Needs new engine").

On the other hand, found quite a few good deals locally from school districts and churches, but with the dreaded 545. The ones I've seen in person match the description, no tomfoolery.


Here's how I see it: I have options for 466e and 643/3060, but I can't go see these. I may end up with a wonderful engine/trans, but in a bus that requires a few thousands in repair costs. This option also means if the bus breaks down midway home, that's another bill for a 200+ mile tow.

I also have the option of buying a bus I can confirm is in good shape, runs good, and also has everything I'm looking for in a shorty(30') with the exception of a 545. Got maintenance records on it which looks great, interior/exterior is in great condition, but still has that darn 545.

I'm figuring this - if I manage to live long enough to have any problems with the 545, I can swap it out with the 643. Likely this would be less (or at the very least, equal to) the cost of repairing a bad engine + tow if I bought a lemon at a distant auction.

It's been a year of subtly searching, maybe it's just my luck but I've had zero good luck with any distant sales. Local ones look great, but have the 545. Even after searching more aggressively I think I may end up taking the 545 and replace it down the road if I don't end up careening off a cliff going downhill with a blown torque converter.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Maintenance is also a key issue.. if tyou Know you over-heated your AT545 on a mountain pass.. you get its fluid and filters changed ASAP afterwords and probably little harm done.. but many have no idea their trans overheated... and even if it did, check the fluid and assume its supposed to get dark with age because engine oil does.. even though at that point your trans is eating itself...



intended use - in town box trucks and school busses arent going to eat AT545s like if they are run across the rockies foot to the floor.. those that traverse the rockies succeasfully in their AT545s i dare say are aware of wehat they are doing and back off the throttle on the inclines.. and descend the other side with caution..



MT643s can fail too.. same thing poor fluid maintenance is going to ruin that trans too.. Navistar had a whole warehouse full of them for a reason.



my 2 failures.. as i mentioned someplace.. one is arguably maintenance.. my electrioc modulator was bad and i didnt know it... I changed it but the damage was done.. after talking to several people in-the-know they all said I ran that tranny with low line pressure even on my full throttle shifts. and over time destroyed it..



my second failure something snapped.. it was operating Perfectly... no slips, no groans, no flares, in fact it was one of the best shifting 545s i'd driven.. and it went to shift into 4th gear as i got o nthe freeway and never made the shift.. just went to N.. no carnage, griding, or fanfare.. it just died... parts can break.. from looking at its inspection plate it and metal in the pan looked like a snapring broke and the drum got loose..



the main point aboiut all of this is use the right tool for the job... the AT545 was an excellent tool for the job a school bus was intended to do.. in fact in some ways better than an MT643... a 643 locks up in 3rd.. many bus routes barely shift to 3rd before you stop again.. a 643 had all that more parts to fail in the lockup mechanism that really gave no benefit to local route use..



get out on the highway and now the role is reversed.. your MT643 provides several useful benefits over the AT545...



again what are you doing with your bus? buy the drivetrain that suits your intended use...

-Christopher
I agree buy the best equipment you can find and afford for the job at hand my point is that there is no reason to reject a bus that suits your needs in most ways just because it has a 545. Buy it maintain it and drive it with good sense and it should give good service. Gene
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:54 PM   #29
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By the way I have many years in the HD repair field and I bought a 5.9L powered 545 Bluebird for my project. Gene
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
ive done a 545 to 1000 swap on ione bus anbd a 545 to 643 swap on another.. both are like whole different busses to drive now..



in my opinion well worth the $$$ and work I put in to do those..



-Christopher
hell yeah. Lockup and OD have an amazing effect on interstate drivability and efficiency.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:22 PM   #31
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I would agree with Christopher about the merit of upgrading from the 545 to the 1000 or 643.

But.... I think that it could be quite a bit less expensive to start with the drivetrain that you want than to buy one planning on swapping.

The good ones are out there. A member here just bought a Thomas West Coaster at auction for $750. IIRC: it had a DT466 and MT643.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I would agree with Christopher about the merit of upgrading from the 545 to the 1000 or 643.

But.... I think that it could be quite a bit less expensive to start with the drivetrain that you want than to buy one planning on swapping.

The good ones are out there. A member here just bought a Thomas West Coaster at auction for $750. IIRC: it had a DT466 and MT643.



its most definitely cheaper to find a bus that has the drivetrain you want, than to build it... the only advantage to buoilding it, is the learning experience, and in my case I have a brand new transmission to start with.. it was importabt to me knowing I was going to drive many 1000s of miles per year.



but as we have seen perfect exapmles of here on the forum, people buying busses containing really nice drivetrains even with high miles and still put many 1000s of a year on them with no issues...

-Christopher
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
its most definitely cheaper to find a bus that has the drivetrain you want, than to build it... the only advantage to buoilding it, is the learning experience, and in my case I have a brand new transmission to start with.. it was importabt to me knowing I was going to drive many 1000s of miles per year.



but as we have seen perfect exapmles of here on the forum, people buying busses containing really nice drivetrains even with high miles and still put many 1000s of a year on them with no issues...

-Christopher
For some of us who are not so mechanically inclined the primary learning experience will be how to find my credit card..... I would have to pay someone else to do it for me.
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