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Old 06-23-2017, 09:27 PM   #1
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Trying to find the right clutch for my bus.

Motor runs great guy I bought it from power shifted about 150 miles to bring me the bus. So it runs and drives but I have a toddler and I'm not willing to drive it like that plus it will obviously cause problems down the road. So what I know about my bus is it is a 1965 dodge s400. It is pretty awesome he told me the engine is a 318 and either a 5.2l or 5.3l. When I look up a 318 motor it says it's a 5.2l so I'm guessing that correct. But my problem comes in with Chrysler listing a 318 engine as a 1967 not 1965. Ever parts place I go to does not have this bus in their computers. My mechanic has been looking for a clutch for over a week. Does anyone have any knowledge on this motor? Or have a site that may be able to give me a better chance at finding a clutch... or is it a better idea to just buy and all new motor and transmission? I definitely need advise. I got the bus for what I believe to be a pretty great deal only $2500 and I don't mind putting a lot of money into it I just need to know what the best way to go about this problem is. My mechanic that is looking for the clutch is not the person that told me i need a new clutch and he really hasn't looked at it yet. He is coming Monday to figure out what he thinks is the problem. But in the mean time I'd still like to try and A. Find a clutch or B know if it's is the clutch if I should replace it or if I should just get a new motor and transmission.

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Old 06-23-2017, 09:58 PM   #2
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It would help to know where your located, your other post said something about Placeville Ca, You say you have the funds to do a motor & trans swap then get yourself a Cummins & Allison trans or even a diesel motor & trans out of a late model Chevy Silverado & convert it over, that's the route I would take.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:09 PM   #3
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It would help to know where your located, your other post said something about Placeville Ca, You say you have the funds to do a motor & trans swap then get yourself a Cummins & Allison trans or even a diesel motor & trans out of a late model Chevy Silverado & convert it over, that's the route I would take.
Yes I am located in Placerville, CA. I can come up with the funds for a motor but it will be awhile I was hoping to get it drivable for me in the mean time but if that's not possible I will have to wait I suppose. I'm going to contact blue bird and see if they can give me any info.. I didn't realize that was an option.

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Old 06-23-2017, 10:14 PM   #4
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I think your confusion around the year of the 318 is that they made multiple 318 engines, going back to at least 1957.

As much as I recommend diesel over gas, I don't think I would recommend converting between them. That's a lot of damn work! Especially if all you really need is clutch work.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:26 PM   #5
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I think your confusion around the year of the 318 is that they made multiple 318 engines, going back to at least 1957.

As much as I recommend diesel over gas, I don't think I would recommend converting between them. That's a lot of damn work! Especially if all you really need is clutch work.
Okay that makes a bit more since. Well that's what I was thinking at least for now fix what I have. I do intend on converting it one day. For now I would really like to find a clutch it is just seeming to be really hard for anyone to find one. Maybe I should be focusing more I figuring out what the transmission is to find the right clutch? I'm pretty sure it's a 4 speed is there any other specification I need for the transmission? I don't have a lot of knowledge about cars, just basics. and only in the last month have I actually started to work on things myself. So I kinda need a break down for dummies on this sort of thing. Im sure I can look that part up though.

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Old 06-23-2017, 10:36 PM   #6
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So, the high level question.. What's it doing wrong? Does it not disengage the transmission when you press the clutch?
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:45 PM   #7
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So, the high level question.. What's it doing wrong? Does it not disengage the transmission when you press the clutch?
Well when we first got it the pedal didn't do anything it just hit the floor and stuck there. So my friend, that is not a mechanic but does a lot of work on cars he actually replaced the clutch in my 1999 subaru forester, he came over and I bought a new master cylinder and slave cylinder for it and we put those on we bled it and he says the fork?..is only moving about a 1/4 of an inch... and the pedal seems to actually have pressure behind it now but only for about an inch or two and the pops back up. The previous owner put a master cylinder on it that was waaaaaay to small it looked like it came out of a civic or something. And the(I don't know the proper term for this part) thing that attaches to the pedal and and goes into the master cylinder was to short so we tried to extend it by taking it apart and buying new bolts that were longer and that seemed to work but by the end of it he determined that I was the actual clutch that needed replacing. I don't know enough about all of this to know weather he was right or not. I'm really hoping when my mechanic comes over on Monday he is able to fix it with out replacing the clutch especially since he hasn't been able to find one.

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Old 06-23-2017, 11:06 PM   #8
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I replied in the other thread, but this one's a bit more relevant. The bus was driven more-or-less as it is. It probably does *NOT* need a new clutch, unless the old one is shattered or damaged (most common from abuse). Either the linkages are improperly adjusted, or the release fork (inside the transmission) needs some work. 1/4" of fork travel should be about right, it doesn't need much. The master cylinder is small - I drive a Volvo road tractor which uses a hydraulic clutch and likewise has a tiny master cylinder.

If I understand the symptoms correctly, the new master/slave cylinders are installed and bled properly. You are only feeling "pressure" at the bottom of the clutch pedal travel, which indicates to me an adjustment problem. The lack of clutch release further supports this. Simply put, the parts aren't traveling far enough to disengage the clutch. I'd check to see if the fork and release bearing are OK, follow that to the slave cylinder. If it was an all mechanical setup, I'd check all the linkages and pivot points. Same goes for the pedal, linkages, and master cylinder.

It's also possible the clutch disk is sticking to the flywheel/pressure plate (if it's been parked a long time); take care of all the mechanical bits first (you want at least 1/2 pedal worth of "disengagement") before pursuing this.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:12 PM   #9
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I replied in the other thread, but this one's a bit more relevant. The bus was driven more-or-less as it is. It probably does *NOT* need a new clutch, unless the old one is shattered or damaged (most common from abuse). Either the linkages are improperly adjusted, or the release fork (inside the transmission) needs some work. 1/4" of fork travel should be about right, it doesn't need much. The master cylinder is small - I drive a Volvo road tractor which uses a hydraulic clutch and likewise has a tiny master cylinder.

If I understand the symptoms correctly, the new master/slave cylinders are installed and bled properly. You are only feeling "pressure" at the bottom of the clutch pedal travel, which indicates to me an adjustment problem. The lack of clutch release further supports this. Simply put, the parts aren't traveling far enough to disengage the clutch. I'd check to see if the fork and release bearing are OK, follow that to the slave cylinder. If it was an all mechanical setup, I'd check all the linkages and pivot points. Same goes for the pedal, linkages, and master cylinder.

It's also possible the clutch disk is sticking to the flywheel/pressure plate (if it's been parked a long time); take care of all the mechanical bits first (you want at least 1/2 pedal worth of "disengagement") before pursuing this.
Alright that all sounds very do able thank you agian. It makes me feel a lot better about where this bus is. And hopefully getting it safely on the road soon!

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Old 06-23-2017, 11:18 PM   #10
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RE: the clutch itself ... chances are very good a replacement is available, but you'll need to skip the auto parts stores and try the medium duty truck parts places (Napa is one option).
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:49 PM   #11
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A couple of things... 1.4 in travel at the fork is NOT enough to disengage the clutch. you need more like 1 in.
You must have a little bit of slop between the pedal and clutch master, otherwise you cover the compensation port in the master and get the effect you are talking about.
Some clutches can be a bear to bleed. sometimes you have to force bleed from the slave end.
Are you sure you don,t have the slave upside down? Bleeder needs to face up.
Your clutch may be from a pickup of the same vintage. try looking up by that application.
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
RE: the clutch itself ... chances are very good a replacement is available, but you'll need to skip the auto parts stores and try the medium duty truck parts places (Napa is one option).
Napa is my go to place for all my parts and they did not have a clutch but I will go in again and instead of having them look up the vehicle I'll have them look up the engine. I think it's wierd that they didn't have the clutch when they had the master cylinder and slave cylinder in stalk. So I'll try agian.

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Old 06-24-2017, 12:14 AM   #13
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I just realized something I did not state that may be extremely relevent. Starting the vehicle you do not have to push the clutch in at all I thought stating that he was power shifting made that obvious but I am not so sure that it does. So when you start the bus if it's in neutral sometime you have to give it a little gas and just turn the key you don't have to do anything with the clutch pedal at all if it's in gear when you start it it just starts going. Now this may have been obvious but I just wanted to be sure that was understood properly. The clutch does nothing with starting or shifting the pedal is never touched.

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Old 06-24-2017, 12:54 AM   #14
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I just realized something I did not state that may be extremely relevent. Starting the vehicle you do not have to push the clutch in at all I thought stating that he was power shifting made that obvious but I am not so sure that it does. So when you start the bus if it's in neutral sometime you have to give it a little gas and just turn the key you don't have to do anything with the clutch pedal at all if it's in gear when you start it it just starts going. Now this may have been obvious but I just wanted to be sure that was understood properly. The clutch does nothing with starting or shifting the pedal is never touched.

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If I understand what you just said, if you start the bus in gear it will start to take off regardless of where you have the clutch pedal.

If that is true one of two things is happening.
  1. If the clutch does not release even if the forks are moving the clutch is stuck to the flywheel. If it is stuck to the flywheel (if it has been sitting for a while in a damp climate the clutch face material will rust and stick to the flywheel) it may or may not get unstuck. You will most probably need to replace the clutch. Even if it does get unstuck it more than likely means the clutch face material is compromised and it is just a matter of time until the clutch will do nothing but slip.
  2. If the clutch does not release even though you can see the forks moving it may be a simple adjustment issue. You want it adjusted so that the clutch pedal moves a little before the forks move against the throwout bearing. You also want the clutch to fully release before you are at the very bottom of the clutch pedal travel.
You say you have replaced the clutch slave cylinder. You know how long it is. The total length of the travel of the linkage is how long the slave cylinder is minus the length of the piston and seals.

If the rod that comes out of the slave cylinder is only moving a 1/4" then you have something wrong in your linkage. Either the plunger on the M/C is not traveling far enough or you have air in the system. Purging all of the air out of a wet clutch linkage requires a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT of pumping of the clutch pedal.

In order to purge all of the air out of the system I would start at the top at the M/C and make sure there isn't any air in the M/C itself. Bleeding it on the bench is the easiest way to bleed the M/C.

From the M/C I would make sure nothing but fluid is coming out of the line at the slave cylinder end. And then I would try bleeding at the slave cylinder.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:54 AM   #15
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Just be sure to have Napa look up a medium duty bus/truck part. There are places that rebuild them too. You may need to look into that if Napa can't help.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:02 AM   #16
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If I understand what you just said, if you start the bus in gear it will start to take off regardless of where you have the clutch pedal.

If that is true one of two things is happening.
  1. If the clutch does not release even if the forks are moving the clutch is stuck to the flywheel. If it is stuck to the flywheel (if it has been sitting for a while in a damp climate the clutch face material will rust and stick to the flywheel) it may or may not get unstuck. You will most probably need to replace the clutch. Even if it does get unstuck it more than likely means the clutch face material is compromised and it is just a matter of time until the clutch will do nothing but slip.
  2. If the clutch does not release even though you can see the forks moving it may be a simple adjustment issue. You want it adjusted so that the clutch pedal moves a little before the forks move against the throwout bearing. You also want the clutch to fully release before you are at the very bottom of the clutch pedal travel.
You say you have replaced the clutch slave cylinder. You know how long it is. The total length of the travel of the linkage is how long the slave cylinder is minus the length of the piston and seals.

If the rod that comes out of the slave cylinder is only moving a 1/4" then you have something wrong in your linkage. Either the plunger on the M/C is not traveling far enough or you have air in the system. Purging all of the air out of a wet clutch linkage requires a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT of pumping of the clutch pedal.

In order to purge all of the air out of the system I would start at the top at the M/C and make sure there isn't any air in the M/C itself. Bleeding it on the bench is the easiest way to bleed the M/C.

From the M/C I would make sure nothing but fluid is coming out of the line at the slave cylinder end. And then I would try bleeding at the slave cylinder.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your progress.
Okay all good things to keep in mind and I will keep everyone posted thank you!

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Old 06-24-2017, 01:03 AM   #17
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Just be sure to have Napa look up a medium duty bus/truck part. There are places that rebuild them too. You may need to look into that if Napa can't help.
Alright I will try to talk to them tomorrow and if they can't I will call around and see if someone can point me in the correct direction of someone who rebuilds them

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Old 06-24-2017, 12:12 PM   #18
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Start with the least expensive option. Have someone adjust your clutch and bleed the air out of the system.

Once your master cylinder and slave cylinder are working properly you can more accurately asses the condition of the clutch disk itself. If the clutch disk is ruined, you can then remove it and use the part number from the disk to assist you in getting a new clutch.

I'm wondering how much damage the seller might have done by "power shifting."

It's interesting to see how many opinions you get here. I'm no expert, but these other guys are. I have extensive diesel training, but not on buses.

Good luck with your build.
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:39 PM   #19
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Start with the least expensive option. Have someone adjust your clutch and bleed the air out of the system.

Once your master cylinder and slave cylinder are working properly you can more accurately asses the condition of the clutch disk itself. If the clutch disk is ruined, you can then remove it and use the part number from the disk to assist you in getting a new clutch.

I'm wondering how much damage the seller might have done by "power shifting."

It's interesting to see how many opinions you get here. I'm no expert, but these other guys are. I have extensive diesel training, but not on buses.

Good luck with your build.
That's the plan so far I'll know more on Monday an update everyone

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Old 06-24-2017, 05:10 PM   #20
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I'm wondering how much damage the seller might have done by "power shifting."
Hard to say. Big trucks are designed to be driven this way (I do this as a profession), I never use the clutch except to start/stop. What will do damage is heavy abuse - excessive slipping, over-revving the clutch (usually done by dropping into too low of a gear at speed), and "popping" the clutch (commonly done to squeal the tires in cars & pickups). I'm going on the assumption that the bus was started/stopped each time it was necessary to stop in traffic and "rev-matching" was done to shift gears.
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