Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-06-2014, 02:22 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 18
Year: 1992
Coachwork: International Ward/AmTran
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar DT360
Rated Cap: 72
Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

I'd really like to upgrade the engine and trans on my 1992 International.

Can anyone help me source a good DT466 and a highway, hill, and towing friendly transmission? I have welders, mechanics, and friends to help me install... just need to see what it's going to cost me to buy what I need.

I plan on making the switch this winter.
iverSUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 08:48 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,615
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Your best bet is to buy another bus/truck and take the parts off it. It will be cheaper to buy a whole unit rather than an engine here and a tranny there type deal.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 09:30 AM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 623
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
Your best bet is to buy another bus/truck and take the parts off it. It will be cheaper to buy a whole unit rather than an engine here and a tranny there type deal.
I second this, if you are really wanting to swap. It'd be the easiest and most economical route. Plus after it is all said and done you can part out/ scrap what you have left and pretty much recoup all money invested(minus beer for the friends of course). Before you swap anything with the engine though, you can get good power and reliability out of the engine you have. If it was me, I'd take the injection pump to a shop and have them work on it to get 300-350 hp out of it. Than I would get a larger turbo on the engine, bigger intercooler and radiator. And you will have what you want, no swapping or cutting required.
As far as the trans is concerned, you have a whole host of options, read this thread here viewtopic.php?f=48&t=312767 . A lot of good things were said and many points were made. The trans that you'll want depends on who all is going to drive, the environment you'll be in, etc.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2014, 12:29 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 18
Year: 1992
Coachwork: International Ward/AmTran
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar DT360
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Before you swap anything with the engine though, you can get good power and reliability out of the engine you have. If it was me, I'd take the injection pump to a shop and have them work on it to get 300-350 hp out of it. Than I would get a larger turbo on the engine, bigger intercooler and radiator. And you will have what you want, no swapping or cutting required.
This idea is an option. Anyone have any experience in this area, getting a DT360 to step up and not suck so much?

As far as a trans... I travel all over the US. Minnesota is where I call home, and go down to Arkansas (Ozark mountains), Florida (Tennessee mountains), Eastern Wisconsin (lots of hills), etc. The bus weighs 17,000lbs right now, but will increase up to about 26k fully loaded. A "bolt-in" option for a better suited transmission would be great.
iverSUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 07:13 PM   #5
Site Team
 
bansil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MNT CITY TN
Posts: 5,039
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iverSUN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
Before you swap anything with the engine though, you can get good power and reliability out of the engine you have. If it was me, I'd take the injection pump to a shop and have them work on it to get 300-350 hp out of it. Than I would get a larger turbo on the engine, bigger intercooler and radiator. And you will have what you want, no swapping or cutting required.
This idea is an option. Anyone have any experience in this area, getting a DT360 to step up and not suck so much?

As far as a trans... I travel all over the US. Minnesota is where I call home, and go down to Arkansas (Ozark mountains), Florida (Tennessee mountains), Eastern Wisconsin (lots of hills), etc. The bus weighs 17,000lbs right now, but will increase up to about 26k fully loaded. A "bolt-in" option for a better suited transmission would be great.
damn...you never said HI..Dougeeeee

and had a beer...with me.......
__________________
Our build La Tortuga
Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.
George S. Patton
bansil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 10:19 PM   #6
Almost There
 
Will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, Indiana
Posts: 79
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: DTA 360, Fuller 6-speed
Rated Cap: 53
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

I mean, what power does the DT466 offer? A few more--like I think there is a 210hp version, but most are less. Most of your power is being eaten by a rubbish transmission. That Allison thing is notoriously bad at letting power through it. I avoided it when I bought my bus. It was difficult to find a manual shift. I didn't have taxpayers supporting my fuel costs.

The DT360 is a great engine--in my own experience it's about the best ever. It's not the most powerful, but a more powerful engine won't help you with that bad transmission. I described this all in another post, but I'll do it again here. Allison doesn't want your engine to hurt their tranny. The tranny gets to decide when it downshifts. Engine torque is what bad trannies hate. With an auto, the tranny can automatically downshift to protect itself rather than endure the engine torque. On the 7.3 Powestroke in my van, even though the engine is rated at 425ft-lbs or torque, I have a Scangauge on the engine and when the engine comes under load--at 215ft-lbs, the transmission downshifts. My Powerstroke might as well be the base model gas 4.2 V6. The trammy will not let the engine bear down on it--it just scoots out of the way.

My bus will do 79mph on a flat with a 185hp DTA360, a 6-speed manual and a 3.73 axle. I can cruise across the flat states at 75mph no problem. If I were you, I would either look for an older bus with a manual, or a newer one with a better auto.
__________________
My bus conversion
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 10:56 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 1,615
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All-American R/E
Engine: 8.3 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will

My bus will do 79mph on a flat with a 185hp DTA360, a 6-speed manual and a 3.73 axle. I can cruise across the flat states at 75mph no problem. If I were you, I would either look for an older bus with a manual, or a newer one with a better auto.
Just for my curiosity, what it like when you hit the mountains? Whats your average speed up a long grade? Whats your MPG roughly? This actually sounds like a good setup to me. Not that I'd drive at 75mph in a bus, but thats another story.
opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 09:55 AM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 127
Coachwork: -
Chassis: -
Engine: -
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

IVERsun,

what is your bus - dog nose, flat nose(FE/RE)?

It seems your best bet would be to get a engine/trans combo out of a MD truck (or even base HD truck) -
As was suggested you could have the engine pumped to some serious level - however your trans won't go too far on that.
So - swapping transmissions will certainly be SOME work!
Might as well look at a MD/HD truck (maybe a roll-over) and get other swap parts too. Hell, you might even have to LOWER your power levels!

[As a little side story: piston powered helicopters were always a little "on the edge": Helicopters need a lot of power - so to boost performance manufacturers tended to use smaller engines (less weight) and boost power with higher compression or slapping on a turbo - as a result the TBO (Time Between/Bevor Overhaul) was rather low - 1200hrs - IF they made it to that level. Comes Mr. Robinson and starts a new piston helicopter line (...for the Helo drivers here - PLEASE DON'T start a love/hate discussion about the Rs!!) - the genious part of these machines is that Frank used a LOW-POWER BIG airplane engine for his helos! He designed everything so that the heavier weight of these engines was off-set by their power. And he LOWERED the power-output (...on paper only ) - so now you had a mild engine, that was run still on lower power-settings (most of the time) - but you had the nominal power available at all times! Today these helos have the highest TBO of all piston engine helos OR airplanes (and btw they are statistically the safest single engine piston aircraft - helo or airplane!!)
What I get at: A bigger engine/trans might be the ticket, as long as the computer driving the unit (YOU!) is using the advantages of this engine/trans combo.
[Or have someone lower the power to the max level you want ...or what the drive axle can take...]

thjakits
thjakits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 10:14 PM   #9
Almost There
 
Will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, Indiana
Posts: 79
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: DTA 360, Fuller 6-speed
Rated Cap: 53
Re: Upgrade from DT360 and AT545?

Quote:
Originally Posted by opus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will

My bus will do 79mph on a flat with a 185hp DTA360, a 6-speed manual and a 3.73 axle. I can cruise across the flat states at 75mph no problem. If I were you, I would either look for an older bus with a manual, or a newer one with a better auto.
Just for my curiosity, what it like when you hit the mountains? Whats your average speed up a long grade? Whats your MPG roughly? This actually sounds like a good setup to me. Not that I'd drive at 75mph in a bus, but thats another story.
The fastest I've gone in the bus is 82mph via gps. Might have been a slight downhill, but not much of one.

You notice the mountains, certainly. Actually, you can feel all the way through Nebraska heading west that you are gradually climbing. And on the way back east, that you seem to have more power. But to answer your question, we went over the Continental Divide on US160 at Wolf Creek Pass, nearly 11,000 feet elevation. It's a 2-lane road and much more aggressive than the interstate up north on I-70. One thing about having a turbo, the engine doesn't lose any power below 10,000 feet. I bring a little 250cc motorcycle when we travel and rode that from Durango to Ouray on the Million Dollar Highway--that engine definitely lost nearly half its power--and my seat cushion lost have its foam because my butt chewed it all off. The bus, I think we were able to keep it in 4th gear--two downshifts. When you start up a grade in 6th and the speed is getting near 60, you give the throttle full-beans before you let the clutch up in 5th and it smootly keeps pulling. I think the next downshift is around 50mph--same deal. Then the motor gets pulled down into the 40s, but as it approaches it's torque peak of 1,700rpm, the torque is actually rising as the rpm drops. As you approach 2000, the engine is getting really stubborn about being pulled down any lower. It might have gotten us down to 35-40mph. It wasn't an issue. More power would have meant we went up the divide a little faster. What we had was enough. Our 4,200 mile average was 53mph--and that includes everything--we used the bus for many short trips, such as to the cog railway in Colorado Springs, to a rafting trips, hot springs, horseback riding--that's not our interstate average.

When we do shorter trips I tend to care less about mileage. In the midwest, I don't really lose any speed on grades. I jam the pedal down and use the momentum to sweep back up the other side. I can average 75mph almost anywhere between the Appalachians and the Rockies. We generally average 12mph when I bother to keep track. On our summer trip we recorded 12.5mpg on the leg between Des Moines, Iowa and Julesburg, Colorado. That was a long night.
__________________
My bus conversion
Will is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seat upgrade question chev49 Conversion General Discussions 17 12-14-2012 06:07 AM
DT466 rotary IP upgrade kotflb International | Navistar Drivetrain 5 06-01-2011 04:02 AM
DT360 or 466? nevrenufhp International | Navistar Drivetrain 2 05-04-2011 02:40 PM
The ultimate skoolie upgrade? baadpuppy Conversion General Discussions 1 08-10-2009 12:27 AM
upgrade wanderlust Conversion General Discussions 0 08-08-2008 08:28 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.