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Old 02-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #1
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What Motor

Hi Folks

Please can you give your from the heart advise on CAT ... Navistar ... Cummins .. Good & bads
I've own a ford work truck with a 7.3 in it .. Happy
Folks say Cummins very good
What about a Cat ??

I've found a nice unit .. With a Cat

Thanks

Frodo
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:19 PM   #2
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Re: What Motor


Yes, Cummins makes good engines. Look for an 8.3. But the little 5.9 is also good, and most common -- just a bit small.

Right up there with the Cummins 8.3 is the International (Navistar, I suppose) DT466. This is probably your best bet, and it is not as rare as the Cummins 8.3.

Sorry, don't know much about Cats. There are several models, but I don't see many people praising any of them.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:37 PM   #3
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Re: What Motor

Cats are expensive and I havent seen anything exciting in their lineup in a few years. 3208 is probably what you'd find on older rigs. They were ok. We used to call them disposable engines. People here have them and like them it seems.

I have the 8.3, its the biggest hp you'll find in a school bus, that I know of. 5.9 is good too. They had a dowel pin problem that you would need to research to find out what years and if it was corrected.

DT's are excellent. You wont get the best fuel mileage though.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:19 AM   #4
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Re: What Motor

Thanks for the fast replies.

My preference is to get a manual transmission , I've see a few as I would call powerstroke 7.3 Navistar . Also some with the Cat motor , but the cummins unit I've yet to see with a manual .

Thought it would be easy to find my unit ... Only want to buy once & my drivetrain needs to be right .

I just don't want to be screammmming own the highway at 3000 rpm @ 60 mph

I like the sound of the 8.3 but it's in big buses .

Frodo
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:49 AM   #5
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Re: What Motor

I really like my t444e, its simple and if you need any parts you can get them anywhere , there not a powehouse by any means, im hooked up to 545 tranny and if I rember run about about 2500 rpm at 60 but ill have to check its been a while. the 466 seems to be the most liked engine better all around but it has its problems too.
Most bus around here are auto trans with hyd brakes, it makes it easyer to get drivers for them.
there a big bus dealer in manitoba I think its called fairway in steinbach http://www.fairwayspecialty.ca/products/blue-bird not sure if the link will work.
just a note on the cat we have a c-7 in our bus at work and it seems to have something wrong with all the time ie fan,injector pump etc when you read about it there seem to be more cons then pros on that motor, but its like everything else, you can get one a run million miles no trouble next person wont be able to keep it running,
I always say some people cant use a cheese grader with out cutting themselves
good luck
gbstewart
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #6
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Re: What Motor

I know nothing about the school-bus-size Caterpillars, but I know quite a bit about the 18-wheeler-size ones. (You may stop reading now. ) And it seems to me that manufacturers tend to build one level of quality -- although that is changing. (Such as the real Mongoose high-quality bicycles versus the crappy Walmart bicycles wearing the Mongoose name.)

By the way, Cat engines used to be known by four digits, such as 3406. Now they are called C-xx. I think the 3406 was last called C-14. (14 Liters.)

When I took up driving 18-wheelers over 30 years ago, Caterpillar was king of the hill, famous for their durability. Ever so gradually, that changed -- until somewhere around a decade ago when they came out with the C-12, which pretty much murdered Caterpillar's highway engine division. The C-12 was supposed to use less fuel (being smaller), while delivering almost the same power as the C-14 (thanks to modern computerized injection). Well, the C-12 was a grenade. My employer bought around 50 of them, and after a while we "could set our watches by when" they self-destructed. I heard it was something with the wrist pins. Technically they were out of warranty, but Cat still paid 75% of the cost of new engines.
A few years ago, Caterpillar stopped selling highway engines altogether.

While I'm at it....

Cummins inherited the top rank for 18-wheelers, and seem to deserve it. Not unexpected.

The big surprise is Detroit Diesel, originally a branch of General Motors. Detroit used to build two-stroke diesels, which were cheap, but delivered power only at screaming RPMs, smoked like wet camp fires, and wore out fast. Then Roger Penske and Mercedes Benz bought Detroit Diesel, and summarily replaced the two-stroke line with four-strokes designed by Mercedes. These became the 60-series and 50-series Detroits, which are now immensely successful in big rigs (the 60) and highway buses (the 50).

I guess I felt nostalgic about about my 18-wheeler days.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #7
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Re: What Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess
I know nothing about the school-bus-size Caterpillars, And it seems to me that manufacturers tend to build one level of quality -- although that is changing. (Such as the real Mongoose high-quality bicycles versus the crappy Walmart bicycles wearing the Mongoose name.)



I guess I felt nostalgic about about my bmx days.
I remember saving up and buying my first mongoose frame in 1979/80 I road it hard until it was replaced by a lighter Hutch Pro around 1982

thanks for jogging the ole memory
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #8
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Re: What Motor


WARNING. Thread drift in progress. WARNING. Thread drift in progress. Warp core breach in 30 minutes.

If a bicycle has suspension, there is a reasonably accurate way to determine its quality. Stand next to it, hold the brake, and push down quickly and hard on the handlebar. If it resists quick compression and then comes back up slowly, you have proper suspension damping and the rest of the bicycle is probably also of decent quality. But if it compresses quickly and bounces right back up like a pogo stick, then you have... a pogo stick on wheels, $69.95 at CrapMart.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:41 PM   #9
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Re: What Motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess
By the way, Cat engines used to be known by four digits, such as 3406. Now they are called C-xx. I think the 3406 was last called C-14. (14 Liters.)
I'm with you. Once they went to the E series, they lost my love.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #10
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Re: What Motor

"E", as in 3406E, means electronic injection control -- which in most cases improves fuel mileage and reduces pollution. But electronic components have a nasty tendency to suddenly fail, leaving you on the side of some desolate road. It happened to me with a C-14 -- in the middle of the Utah salt flats. That's why some of us try to buy buses from the last few years before electronic controls, which came on the market in the 1990s, more or less.
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