What year

[Whatthefak]

When did they start putting the smog crap in busses

Asking because I was offered an 04 is that going to have extra complications of smog stuff?

[cowlitzcoach]

Worse than an '01 but not nearly as bad as an '07.

[Whatthefak]

So up to like 03 is the same and then it gets worse?

[cowlitzcoach]

Depending upon which engine we are talking about it could be okay or so-so. I personally like the '00 and older simply because they are less controlled with electronics. The advent of electronics did make things run more efficiently but it did so at the cost of much more complications.

Regardless, you want to stay away from buses with V-type engines as they generally do not perform as well as an inline engine.

You also want to stay with IC/IHC or Cummins engines. All of the other makes of engines are okay but they tend to have more problems and cost much more when it comes time to service or repair.

[Whatthefak]

As much as I've been reading I realize I know far to little about busses, I've worked on air ride and air brakes and a few clutches and engines in a truck shop but these are different beasts

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Whatthefak

When did they start putting the smog crap in busses

Asking because I was offered an 04 is that going to have extra complications of smog stuff?

My 04 has no emissions crap. What engine are you talking about here?

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

My 04 has no emissions crap. What engine are you talking about here?

You don't have EGR?

The first emissions devices were EGR systems. They came along in 2004. Some 2003 buses will have them. They can cause issues but generally don't, and aren't too expensive to fix.

2007 was a big year. Many engines got DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters). This was a biggie and caused issues in school buses. They are horrendously expensive, and to be kept in working order they require that the engine mostly runs at operating temperature, and periodically go through a self-cleaning cycle. This is tough on a bus, especially in winter. It they get damaged they cost thousands to replace. Many buses were retro-fitted with them, and they can be deleted ... and sold for quite a bit.

At about the same time, manufacturers tried to make the base engine run more cleanly ... CAT introduced the C7 and later the ACERT (because the C7 wasn't very good). The abject failure of the ACERT engine led to CAT withdrawing from the school bus market.

In 2012 they added DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). This is another thing you have to buy, although its cheap and everywhere. Jury is still out on whether or not it actually works properly. I mean, it works, but reliability isn't yet clear.

Bottom line here is that the best engines for our use broadly live in buses from around 1990 to 2003. Up to around 2006 is probably okay. Later than that and you are entering the market where you are competing with schools, churches, other organizations that can put the bus back into passenger service, and the prices rocket.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Twigg

You don't have EGR?

The first emissions devices were EGR systems. They came along in 2004. Some 2003 buses will have them. They can cause issues but generally don't, and aren't too expensive to fix.

2007 was a big year. Many engines got DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters). This was a biggie and caused issues in school buses. They are horrendously expensive, and to be kept in working order they require that the engine mostly runs at operating temperature, and periodically go through a self-cleaning cycle. This is tough on a bus, especially in winter. It they get damaged they cost thousands to replace. Many buses were retro-fitted with them, and they can be deleted ... and sold for quite a bit.

At about the same time, manufacturers tried to make the base engine run more cleanly ... CAT introduced the C7 and later the ACERT (because the C7 wasn't very good). The abject failure of the ACERT engine led to CAT withdrawing from the school bus market.

In 2012 they added DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). This is another thing you have to buy, although its cheap and everywhere. Jury is still out on whether or not it actually works properly. I mean, it works, but reliability isn't yet clear.

Bottom line here is that the best engines for our use broadly live in buses from around 1990 to 2003. Up to around 2006 is probably okay. Later than that and you are entering the market where you are competing with schools, churches, other organizations that can put the bus back into passenger service, and the prices rocket.

Nope no egr. Somehow I got a late 04' body with an 03' engine from the factory. Navistar went to the egr in 04 from all I can find.
After finding out how expensive DT466's can be to fix, I'd definitely avoid the EGR engines. The tech's told me to avoid anything after 04. That's the Navistar stuff. Navistar "quality" went way down with every tier of emmisions implemented.

[Whatthefak]

Twigg that was exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

[jjhwick119]

From what I understand, some 04 models don't have EGR. I believe the T444e was never made with emissions stuff, and some other models you can get lucky, from what I recall

[o1marc]

I was educated on this by one of the more knowledgable bus dealers, that everything up through 04 is safe, and the electric gremlins started in the 05 and newer models. So my cutoff year is 04.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by jjhwick119

From what I understand, some 04 models don't have EGR. I believe the T444e was never made with emissions stuff, and some other models you can get lucky, from what I recall

Correct. The T444 never even had EGR fitted as far as I know.

[Tango]

Just heard on NPR (National Public Radio)...

Cattle produce 86 times as much CO2 as all the fossil fuel engines in the world.

Get the EPA working on THAT one and leave my bus alone!

[Whatthefak]

Originally Posted by Tango

Just heard on NPR (National Public Radio)...

Cattle produce 86 times as much CO2 as all the fossil fuel engines in the world.

Get the EPA working on THAT one and leave my bus alone!

Hahaha cow butt filters, don't say that to loud some wack job will try to make it a law.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by jjhwick119

From what I understand, some 04 models don't have EGR. I believe the T444e was never made with emissions stuff, and some other models you can get lucky, from what I recall

At least with IC/Navistar that is the case.

[Miles O Roads]

Originally Posted by Whatthefak

Hahaha cow butt filters, don't say that to loud some wack job will try to make it a law.

In California they wanted to basically put a catalytic on the cow's back side. But I wont even go into Cali subject.