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Old 04-21-2018, 05:59 PM   #1
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What year

When did they start putting the smog crap in busses

Asking because I was offered an 04 is that going to have extra complications of smog stuff?
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:03 PM   #2
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Worse than an '01 but not nearly as bad as an '07.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:16 PM   #3
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So up to like 03 is the same and then it gets worse?
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:11 AM   #4
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Depending upon which engine we are talking about it could be okay or so-so. I personally like the '00 and older simply because they are less controlled with electronics. The advent of electronics did make things run more efficiently but it did so at the cost of much more complications.

Regardless, you want to stay away from buses with V-type engines as they generally do not perform as well as an inline engine.

You also want to stay with IC/IHC or Cummins engines. All of the other makes of engines are okay but they tend to have more problems and cost much more when it comes time to service or repair.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:23 AM   #5
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As much as I've been reading I realize I know far to little about busses, I've worked on air ride and air brakes and a few clutches and engines in a truck shop but these are different beasts
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:04 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Whatthefak View Post
When did they start putting the smog crap in busses

Asking because I was offered an 04 is that going to have extra complications of smog stuff?
My 04 has no emissions crap. What engine are you talking about here?
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:54 AM   #7
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My 04 has no emissions crap. What engine are you talking about here?
You don't have EGR?

The first emissions devices were EGR systems. They came along in 2004. Some 2003 buses will have them. They can cause issues but generally don't, and aren't too expensive to fix.

2007 was a big year. Many engines got DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters). This was a biggie and caused issues in school buses. They are horrendously expensive, and to be kept in working order they require that the engine mostly runs at operating temperature, and periodically go through a self-cleaning cycle. This is tough on a bus, especially in winter. It they get damaged they cost thousands to replace. Many buses were retro-fitted with them, and they can be deleted ... and sold for quite a bit.

At about the same time, manufacturers tried to make the base engine run more cleanly ... CAT introduced the C7 and later the ACERT (because the C7 wasn't very good). The abject failure of the ACERT engine led to CAT withdrawing from the school bus market.

In 2012 they added DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). This is another thing you have to buy, although its cheap and everywhere. Jury is still out on whether or not it actually works properly. I mean, it works, but reliability isn't yet clear.

Bottom line here is that the best engines for our use broadly live in buses from around 1990 to 2003. Up to around 2006 is probably okay. Later than that and you are entering the market where you are competing with schools, churches, other organizations that can put the bus back into passenger service, and the prices rocket.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:20 PM   #8
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You don't have EGR?

The first emissions devices were EGR systems. They came along in 2004. Some 2003 buses will have them. They can cause issues but generally don't, and aren't too expensive to fix.

2007 was a big year. Many engines got DPF (Diesel Particulate Filters). This was a biggie and caused issues in school buses. They are horrendously expensive, and to be kept in working order they require that the engine mostly runs at operating temperature, and periodically go through a self-cleaning cycle. This is tough on a bus, especially in winter. It they get damaged they cost thousands to replace. Many buses were retro-fitted with them, and they can be deleted ... and sold for quite a bit.

At about the same time, manufacturers tried to make the base engine run more cleanly ... CAT introduced the C7 and later the ACERT (because the C7 wasn't very good). The abject failure of the ACERT engine led to CAT withdrawing from the school bus market.

In 2012 they added DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). This is another thing you have to buy, although its cheap and everywhere. Jury is still out on whether or not it actually works properly. I mean, it works, but reliability isn't yet clear.

Bottom line here is that the best engines for our use broadly live in buses from around 1990 to 2003. Up to around 2006 is probably okay. Later than that and you are entering the market where you are competing with schools, churches, other organizations that can put the bus back into passenger service, and the prices rocket.
Nope no egr. Somehow I got a late 04' body with an 03' engine from the factory. Navistar went to the egr in 04 from all I can find.
After finding out how expensive DT466's can be to fix, I'd definitely avoid the EGR engines. The tech's told me to avoid anything after 04. That's the Navistar stuff. Navistar "quality" went way down with every tier of emmisions implemented.
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:36 PM   #9
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Twigg that was exactly what I was looking for, thank you!
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:56 PM   #10
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From what I understand, some 04 models don't have EGR. I believe the T444e was never made with emissions stuff, and some other models you can get lucky, from what I recall
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