Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-06-2015, 10:27 AM   #1
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,439
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Wheel types: Dayton and Budd. Pros, cons and other info

G'day.
This conversation occurred in another thread recently and I think that it's good information to have easily accessible.

Original thread: I am thinking about this one

Firstly, this is a Budd:


And this is a Dayton:


Please note that no modern Dayton wheels use split-rims! If you have a Dayton wheel with a tire that requires an inner tube you may have split-rims. If you're running tubeless then you don't.

Dayton wheels (spoke wheels; wagon wheels)
  • Pros:
    • tires can be changed with a breaker bar, torque wrench and something on the ground to check trueness of wheels;
    • The donut shaped and lighter rim makes it easier to lift and move a spare into place (though still freakin' heavy);
    • usually 5 or 6 lug nuts to remove;
    • they look gnarly.
  • Cons:
    • takes some work to get them true;
    • can slip if not tightened properly;
    • it's possible that some shops will charge more to work on them (just a guess);
    • they look gnarly (this one is obviously subjective )
  • Other info:
    • recommended dry torque of 200-260ft.lbs for 3/4"-10 studs; 150-175ft.lbs for 5/8"-11 studs.
Budd wheels:
  • Pros:
    • Always true (unless damaged);
    • clean looking;
    • all heavy-duty shops can work on them.
  • Cons:
    • Spare + rim is effin' heavy;
    • 3/4" drive impact wrench required to remove lug nuts;
    • 6-10 lug nuts to remove;
  • Other info:
    • Recommended dry torque of 450-500ft.lbs.

I did my research on the subject before purchasing my bus, but - at the time - didn't really care one way or the other. In the end I'm glad I have Daytons since I can deal with them myself; whether on the road or in the driveway. I've had most of the wheels off at one point or another and put them all back. They aren't very difficult to install, though I can understand how a fleet would be more efficient with Budds. For me, an extra 15 minutes isn't a big deal. That time would add up for a fleet.

These two pamphlets provides torque information and tightening patterns:
Webb Torque Specifications
Wheel and Tire Specifications

Dayton tire installation video, courtesy of PDBreske:
New tire installation on Dayton wheels

Anyone have anything to add?
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 10:34 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,939
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Great post.

Thanks Man.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 12:48 PM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 626
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
All good points there. I run Daytons as well, and once you get the knack to aligning them, they really are simple to do.

One problem though, and I hope you can change it in your post, is that nut torque, especially with Dayton's, is subjective to the size of the threads used. 200-260 is for 3/4-10 threads. The studs on mine are 5/8-11, which requires way less torque(ask me how I found that out ). Anyways here is a good page that lists nut torque and other interesting wheel tidbits. http://www.firsttruck.ca/wiki/Wheels...-And-Specs.pdf

I'd think if a moderator could make this a sticky, that'd be a great idea.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 01:01 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,439
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Huh.. I'll be damned... I didn't know they came in 5/8-11. I will amend that information if a moderator can unlock the post so I can edit it.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 02:13 PM   #5
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: southwest lowsyana
Posts: 542
Year: 1988
Coachwork: ward
Chassis: international
Engine: dt360a
Rated Cap: 65
edit away!
claydbal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 02:24 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,439
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by claydbal View Post
edit away!
I was hoping to get edit abilities on post #1. Possible?
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 04:22 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
Posts: 1,607
You have laid out all of the main pros and cons for both types of wheels.

I would add one other pro for the Budd wheels.

If you have a bus that the top speed is lower than you would like, you can go to larger wheels with Budd wheels but you can't with Dayton wheels.

On more than a couple of buses I swapped the 22.5" wheels for 24.5" wheels. I gained about 5 MPH at the top end and it didn't change how well the buses climbed hills. On another bus that was really pokey on the hills I swapped the 24.5" wheels for 22.5" wheels and got a little better gradability.

Of course when you do that you need to make sure the weight rating of the tire is sufficient to carry the load whether you are going up or down in tire size.
cowlitzcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 04:25 PM   #8
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,439
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
You have laid out all of the main pros and cons for both types of wheels.

I would add one other pro for the Budd wheels.

If you have a bus that the top speed is lower than you would like, you can go to larger wheels with Budd wheels but you can't with Dayton wheels.

On more than a couple of buses I swapped the 22.5" wheels for 24.5" wheels. I gained about 5 MPH at the top end and it didn't change how well the buses climbed hills. On another bus that was really pokey on the hills I swapped the 24.5" wheels for 22.5" wheels and got a little better gradability.

Of course when you do that you need to make sure the weight rating of the tire is sufficient to carry the load whether you are going up or down in tire size.
Very good addition! There is still a bit of wiggle room for Daytons since the tire size goes up to 12r22.5 for 22.5" rims, but you certainly can't jump all the way up to 24.5" wheels.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 06:47 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 539
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
If you get a really new bus, you might run into hub piloted bud type wheels, they have the lug nuts with built in washers, not the standard tapered lug nuts
Kubla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2015, 07:20 AM   #10
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: southwest lowsyana
Posts: 542
Year: 1988
Coachwork: ward
Chassis: international
Engine: dt360a
Rated Cap: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazty View Post
I was hoping to get edit abilities on post #1. Possible?
oops, try again!
claydbal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.