Which bus/motor would you get if you did it over? - Page 2

paul iossi · 12-09-2008, 04:48 PM

looking at the pictures, it appears to be an inline 6 cyl detroit 6/71 or also known as 238hp 2 stroke, that has been adapted to run laying on its side, mostly oil pan/sump and return system mods. Detroit Diesel also used to modify the V6&8 2 cycle engines for use in the pusher transit busses with V drives to lay on their left side so thgat the heads and valve train could be serviced.

Elliot Naess · 12-09-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul iossi

looking at the pictures, it appears to be an inline 6 cyl detroit 6/71 or also known as 238hp 2 stroke, that has been adapted to run laying on its side, mostly oil pan/sump and return system mods. Detroit Diesel also used to modify the V6&8 2 cycle engines for use in the pusher transit busses with V drives to lay on their left side so that the heads and valve train could be serviced.

Once in a while, I ponder what it might take to convert a common modern engine. I agree, it shouldn't take a whole lot more than oil pan & pickup, and drainback. The drainback might be the difficult part, as I fear the valve guides would suck oil if they were submerged in a pool of it. The mounting should be straight forward crossmembers and brackets made from half inch steel plate. And the SAE bell housing patterns are circular, so the tranny would never know the difference. No more dog house! Yet the radiator could remain up front for best air flow -- the best of both worlds!

paul iossi · 12-09-2008, 05:35 PM

I think that modern engines are to tall and would be too wide to fit between the frame rails, 33" standard width, but I still havent seen the rulebook that says that you can't build a custom frame. so it becomes an issue of "you pays your money and you take your chances" kind of like a 23 inch roof lift with a monster monobrow.

Elliot Naess · 12-09-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul iossi

I think that modern engines are to tall and would be too wide to fit between the frame rails, 33" standard width, but I still havent seen the rulebook that says that you can't build a custom frame. so it becomes an issue of "you pays your money and you take your chances" kind of like a 23 inch roof lift with a monster monobrow.

Yieehah -- that means I'm in like flint!

We have a 1985 Caterpillar 3406 with a 13-speed sitting in the back of the yard where I used to work. The Old Man was keeping it for sentimental reasons -- his first brand new truck -- but I think he outgrew that.
Oh... the brainstorms!

Joe Monstermaker · 12-09-2008, 08:20 PM

The 3406 Cat/13-speed would be absolutely awesome, probably the finest drivetrain you could ask for. And it would haul that big crate like it was nothing!

Elliot Naess · 12-09-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Monstermaker

The 3406 Cat/13-speed would be absolutely awesome, probably the finest drivetrain you could ask for. And it would haul that big crate like it was nothing!

Quote:

ZZZZAP Back to reality... must not let stupid crazy ideas rule my entire life... must resist...
_________________
Captain of the "Land Yacht"

paul iossi · 12-10-2008, 10:21 AM

AWSOME,

a 400HP+ 3406 with a 13 speed roadranger in Millicent, 100mph uphill and down fully loaded, yup AWSOME by any standards.

then reality kicks in, would believe 70 mph loaded and 9 mpg, just another 15 minuite project, and you would only need to extend the doghouse about 6 inches rearword and 8 inches taller, just minor modifications for a fabricating master like you.

Elliot Naess · 01-18-2009, 12:02 PM

Hey, guys.... Let's clear something up, just so nobody goes out and makes a fool of himself.

A Cat 3406 is a 14-plus liter engine and it measures on the order of twice the size of our bus engines. Installing such a beast in a bus... would fall in the category of putting a car engine in a motorcycle. Been done, but definitely not a beginner's project.

dieselman69 · 01-20-2009, 09:04 AM

I was researching engines before buying our bus, & the good things I read about the DT466 made me decide that was the best choice, so far I haven't been sorry about my choice, for one thing it's wet sleeve!!!!!

paul iossi · 01-20-2009, 09:16 AM

and just to add fuel to the fire a 3406 is one of cat's smaller engines, it's available as a v8, 3408 or V12, 3412 in industrial versions.

Elliot Naess · 01-20-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul iossi

and just to add fuel to the fire a 3406 is one of cat's smaller engines, it's available as a v8, 3408 or V12, 3412 in industrial versions.

When I worked at Werner Enterprises (trucking) in the mid 1980s, they built a show truck with a 3412. They bought a Peterbilt glider kit (new truck without engine and rear suspension), moved the cab back a foot, lengthened the hood a foot. 750 HP and torque like a freight train. The stuff that money can do!

paul iossi · 01-20-2009, 01:01 PM

20 some years later the 3412 is available@ 900+ hp
why not try a 3508, 1600 hp@1800 rpm,

transmisions and clutches might be a problem but i'm sure a generator and wheel motors would work.

elkoskoolie · 03-03-2009, 11:13 AM

Well, The long wait is over. I picked up my second Gillig this past weekend, a 1975 636, rear engine CAT 3208 WITH A ROADRANGER RT-610 10 SPEED!!!!! Since it's a pusher, the shift pattern is reversed:
5/10 3/8 1/6
4/9 2/7 R
So far I've only used 4 speeds, 2-4-7-9
The bus is in excellent shape, nice gloss white paint, green and orange-yellow stripe decals on the sides, tinted windows. Based on the grease pen markings in the engine bay, the engine is a replacement re-man with 40k miles. I only drove it approx 25 miles (from Berkeley thru Oakland on the freeway!), tranny-clutch seem fine. I need to practice shifting, especially down shifting. Too much focus on driving, couldn't look at the tach, and wasn't bringing RPM's up enough.
The bus has basement storage, and a compartment for a spare that will become a generator bay. Previous owner was going to make it a mobile homeless shelter, and built 10 nicely done bunks inside, with a rear living area. For now, we'll take it as is to Burningman, and use it as a place for pre-event co-workers to sleep. This will really help those who leave early and then return for the event.
The bus needs tires before it moves again. I'll have some tube-type 10-22 (yes, 22!) wheels available in a month or so in the Oakland area, if anyone needs them. I'm going to put some 11R24.5 wheels/tires on it.

Elliot Naess · 03-03-2009, 12:11 PM

Congrats! What a find!

I remember looking at a similar bus, but it was too dilapidated to buy. I specially remember studying the shift pattern and linkage, and I concluded that it could be changed to a normal pattern by adding a bell crank to the linkage. Of course, nobody but I would need to do that -- creature of habit that I am.

See you on the Playa! I'll be in Camp Apokiliptika, probably on A Street at about 3:10.

Elliot Naess · 03-03-2009, 01:27 PM

I've never had a 3208. I put a question mark by its reliability based on what I have read -- mostly here on this very forum a couple of years ago, and also about the Wanderlodges, as I mentioned. If what I remember from that is faulty, then I'm delighted!

elkoskoolie · 03-03-2009, 02:17 PM

It'll be awhile before we (if ever) put a lot of miles on the CAT, and with relatively low miles now, it will last us a long time.

Elliot (or others), if you're interested in a Gillig w/ 10 speed, there's a '68 on Craigslist in Oroville CA. I looked at it a month or 2 ago. It needs tires and some work: minor electrical and has a surging idle issue. It has a Cummins 220 mid-engine with an added turbo, Jakes and a Roadranger RT-910 10 speed. He's asking $3300, but I thought If I was going to get it I'd offer $1000. Not sure what it's really worth.

Seeing how my wife is the project manager for Theme Camp Placement, I will advise that there is no way to predict where any camp will be located at Burningman. I'll stop by Apokiliptika and look you up! When we know our location (somewhere in Center Camp), I'll put up a post; both Gilligs will be in our camp this year.

Elliot Naess · 03-03-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Theme Camp Placement,

Splendid! Please tell your wife that we very much appreciate all her work!

I had my own Theme Camp in 2007 and was very pleased with the Placement process.

Apokiliptika has been in the same area for several years. A couple of years ago, it created Terminal Village (City) with Booby Bar and several other camps. Of course we will set up wherever we are assigned to. But we are hoping to be in the same place as previously.

I believe we have ourselves a case of Thread Drift. Is there a Burning Man 2009 thread yet? I'll take a look.

You may also like: