Glow Plugs Ticking - What's Normal?

[Booyah45828]

Air intrusion is a big thing with IDI engines. Seeing all the fuel system work you've done I wouldn't be surprised if that is a problem that you have. Use clear vinyl tubing from the hardware store to find the air leaks. Simply replace a short section of line with the vinyl hose. Bleed the system and if you have air leaks they'll show up as bubbles.

The return system needs to have working check valves and be sealed from air as well. Fuel leaks here won't really show up with wetness like a conventional leak.

You having a ford van, I'll assume you have oem ford pickups in the tanks and a ford selector valve. Those all like to leak air as well.

I'd suggest dropping the tanks and ditching the stock pickups with rubber hose with a notch on the bottom. That should eliminate issues in the tank.

Another option is to switch to an electric lift pump. That will help with priming when you have issues, but it's kind of a band aid alternative to a properly operating system.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by firebuild

I seem to be able to eventually get him started no matter which issue is rearing its head.

Well, I spoke too soon. Couldn't get started yesterday or today. Yesterday just as I felt prime coming back (I think - but what do I know??) the battery got too low to crank so I tabled it until today, because it was dark out and I didn't really have anywhere to go anyway.

Today I started out by putting the charger on the battery for a good hour while I did some other stuff. When I got in to play with it, it sounded nice and strong so I figured I was good. But... nope. At this point I don't know if the issue is the cold, or prime, or something else entirely, but I have tried everything I've learned and nothing seems to help. I'm completely confused.

I have the charger on there again and will give it another go, because I really don't want to see the damn tow truck again. But I'm starting to worry I'm doing harm instead of good.

[Booyah45828]

You're doing more harm then good. Endless cranking isn't good and only wears out the starter and batteries.

If you're not willing or capable of fixing this yourself, you have to find someone who is competent enough to do it for you. Your problems aren't going to fix themselves by ignoring them.

I think you can do it personally. As long as you're halfways handy around simple tools, have access to a camera, and an internet connection, this can be fixed.

You drained the batteries really deeply by running them dead trying to start it. You'll have to have the charger on it for more then an hour to get the batteries back up to 100%. What amp rate is your charger?

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

You're doing more harm then good. Endless cranking isn't good and only wears out the starter and batteries.

If you're not willing or capable of fixing this yourself, you have to find someone who is competent enough to do it for you. Your problems aren't going to fix themselves by ignoring them.

I think you can do it personally. As long as you're halfways handy around simple tools, have access to a camera, and an internet connection, this can be fixed.

You drained the batteries really deeply by running them dead trying to start it. You'll have to have the charger on it for more then an hour to get the batteries back up to 100%. What amp rate is your charger?

First of all, I didn't drain them to dead. Not even close. As soon as they start to sound "different" I stop.

Second, I did leave the charger on for an hour. Except the last time, which was half an hour.

Third, I'm not ignoring anything. I've had a hard time finding a mechanic for this vehicle and the one I found, who is very good, is super busy and I have been waiting for him to get me in.

Fourth, if three different mechanics, two of whom I trust deeply, have not been able to fix this so far, I'm not sure what you think I'm going to be able to do on my own. You're implying that I'm not trying hard enough, and I think that's ridiculous. I am "halfway handy" around all kinds of things but have never worked on a vehicle beyond changing the oil in my life.

Fifth, I'm aware that cranking isn't good for the starter. But I'm not in a position to put my only vehicle into storage for the winter, so until I get my block heater (which will happen this week), and my mechanic and I figure out how to solve the problem of the obsolete sending unit, I will have to do what's necessary to start the truck when I really have to go somewhere.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

I could always tell when it was getting time to think about new glow plugs because the wait to start light would go out after shorter and shorter intervals. I discovered that I could still start the engines when it was below 40* with just four working glow plugs. It would require cycling the key enough times that the total amount of wait to start time was about what it would have been if all eight glow plugs had been working properly.

I just noticed this. How long should the "wait to start" light actually be on? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I've never had a diesel before.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by firebuild

I just noticed this. How long should the "wait to start" light actually be on? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I've never had a diesel before.

If you haven't read this over give it a look-
7.3L IDI Glow Plug System Troubleshooting

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If you haven't read this over give it a look-
7.3L IDI Glow Plug System Troubleshooting

Thanks, I will!

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by firebuild

First of all, I didn't drain them to dead. Not even close. As soon as they start to sound "different" I stop.

Second, I did leave the charger on for an hour. Except the last time, which was half an hour.

Third, I'm not ignoring anything. I've had a hard time finding a mechanic for this vehicle and the one I found, who is very good, is super busy and I have been waiting for him to get me in.

Fourth, if three different mechanics, two of whom I trust deeply, have not been able to fix this so far, I'm not sure what you think I'm going to be able to do on my own. You're implying that I'm not trying hard enough, and I think that's ridiculous. I am "halfway handy" around all kinds of things but have never worked on a vehicle beyond changing the oil in my life.

Fifth, I'm aware that cranking isn't good for the starter. But I'm not in a position to put my only vehicle into storage for the winter, so until I get my block heater (which will happen this week), and my mechanic and I figure out how to solve the problem of the obsolete sending unit, I will have to do what's necessary to start the truck when I really have to go somewhere.

Right on, you are doing what you are able and I commend you for your efforts. I wish you the best of luck in resolving these issues.

[alpinekid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If you haven't read this over give it a look-
7.3L IDI Glow Plug System Troubleshooting

I just pop over there and wow, there is a lot more there than just glow plugs. Follow the related links, they cover all the systems. This one goes in my bus log file.
Thanks

[Booyah45828]

Well, I apologize then. When you state,"the battery got too low to crank ", I assume you cranked until the starter quit turning, indicating dead batteries.

1994 was the last year for the idi engine. That's 24 years ago. Most mechanics who would know this stuff really well are either dead, retired, or haven't worked on something like this in years. So there's a good chance you won't find a mechanic for one, because the market simply isn't there.

Having said that, it brings me to this. Have you been on the oil burners site? https://www.oilburners.net/forums/6-...di-diesels.34/

Those guys will know more and help more then most mechanics will. They diagnose issues just like yours daily and can take the time to walk people through the steps, because a lot of people are in the same boat as you are and are unable to find a decent mechanic to help them. The folks here will try and help you, but the guys over there eat sleep and breathe this engine, and that's the type of people you need to look for.

Finally, I didn't intend for my reply to be harsh. It just seems that this bus means a lot to you, and you're starting to get discouraged about it. You CAN do this. Plenty of people brand new to mechanics have. This engine doesn't require fancy tools or ASE master certification, it really is quite simple in operation, but it's problems and the ways to find them are unique to it and require special finesse.

[firebuild]

Just thought I'd check in for those of you who've followed all my woes, what with the gas for diesel switch, the bad sending units, and the tough cold weather starting.

Got Buster back about 4 days ago. Every day he has started up very easily. It's not the coldest weather ever, but it's far from warm! The first two days, I chalked this up to the new magnetic oil pan heater I got: I've been plugging the bus in a few hours before starting up and I figured it was doing the trick. HOWEVER... I finally noticed that for the exterior outlet on my mother's house to work, a switch has to be flipped inside the house, and I haven't been flipping it. Which means the bus is starting up on its own! Without the heat assist, even!

I'm chalking this up to the new fuel sending units. My mechanic was able to modify ones made for a Ford Bronco because mine is obsolete.

The only thing that still worries me is a very quick glow plug cycle. It seems like the "wait to start" light goes off almost instantly, which doesn't seem right. I looked at the glow plug relay and I don't know who made it, but it for sure wasn't Ford. I don't know - I could be overthinking this because I've just gotten so used to something being wrong. I guess I will just enjoy my new mobility.

Now that the bus actually runs, I can get back finishing the conversion.

Thank you to everyone who talked me off the ledge so many times.

[Ronnie]

Wonderful news!!!

[cadillackid]

that rocks your bus is startinfg on its own!!



also on most of these engines, even when the Wait-start light goes out, the plugs may stay on.. you can check this by having someone turn on the key and measure the voltage on the relay.. what this means is that you can simply wait longer on cold days before you spin over the starter.. wait-start light goes out and you wsait An extra 10-15 seconds or so on those really frigid days..
-Christopher

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

also on most of these engines, even when the Wait-start light goes out, the plugs may stay on.. you can check this by having someone turn on the key and measure the voltage on the relay.. what this means is that you can simply wait longer on cold days before you spin over the starter.. wait-start light goes out and you wsait An extra 10-15 seconds or so on those really frigid days..
-Christopher

Yeah, I always wait until I hear the cycle stop, and see the brake indicator light stop flashing, before I start it anyway. It's just weird how quickly "wait to start" goes out - it doesn't seem to be timed to anything.

[cadillackid]

on the later models it was timed to the coolant temperature sender.. im not sure if the glowplug timer module on yours has a temperature sensor of any type or not. on the old international diesel scouts the glowplugs were a hold-in rubber button you held down... the "light" was actually in series with a bi-metal thermostat.. the colder it was the longer it took for the light to go out.. although the glowplugs opewrated as long as you held the button down..

-Christopher

[Booyah45828]

Sounds like you fixed the air intrusion issue. Good to hear that it's starting without any heater aids.

How many seconds are you talking on the light? The 7.3 glow plug system uses resistance to gauge on-time. If you have bad plugs or the wrong plugs it will not work correctly. Did you ever figure out what plugs the dealer installed originally?

[Booyah45828]

For reference, if it's 80 out, on-time might only be a few seconds. If it's 20 out, on-time might be closer to 15 seconds.

[BlackJohn]

Hi firebuild. I was surprised you went for the oil pan heater instead of the block heater for the coolant.

At 200 watts of power, I wouldn't have a clue about how much heat is getting transferred to the oil. That is a lot of oil to heat that way.

How much oil does your bus take? You may want to take your oil temperature to see if it's of any value.

I hope it helps in your weather but wouldn't be much help up here today.
Good Buster's starting up good, he'll get to like the east coast.


John

[cadillackid]

jihn., amazingly it doesnt take much heat to make the oil thinner.. I used to use a 25 watt dipstick heater in my old pegeout diesel.. it held 8 quarts of oil... when it was down at 0f or below if i didnt plug it in, it would be a battery charge and jump nightmare to get it going.. with just that 25 watt heater, that little car would fire right up...

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

the advantage to thinner oil is that it doesnt bind the bearings up.. so the starter can crank the engine with less effort == faster spin-over == higher cylinder temps and quicker fire
-Christopher