Glow Plugs Ticking - What's Normal?

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

so you are supposed to switch to second tank before you run out and shut the engine down on the first tank..

-Christopher

Of course! But I did not think I was running out of fuel.

But here is my new dilemma: how will I really know when I have regained prime? So I can move on to the next ordeal of cold weather starting?

[cadillackid]

If you can find an electric pump that when turned off will allow full pass through you could install that as primer pump. We had that on our old diesel scout. So if it lost prime the electric pump could suck the fuel right out of the tank . Since it allowed full pass through it only had to be used in priming emergencies

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

If you can find an electric pump that when turned off will allow full pass through you could install that as primer pump. We had that on our old diesel scout. So if it lost prime the electric pump could suck the fuel right out of the tank . Since it allowed full pass through it only had to be used in priming emergencies

Yeah, someone else mentioned that last night. I'm going to look into that. BUT... what I need to figure out is how I'm going to get rolling again TODAY, and since I'm sitting in my driveway nowhere near an auto parts store, the question still remains. It's always hard to start Buster in the cold, so I don't know how I will figure out when I've crossed the line from "lost prime" impossible to start to "cold weather" hard to start.

[Ronnie]

Do you have a volt meter or a "test" light? If so do you know where the glow plugs are? My next step in all this would be to check to see when there is power to the glow plugs. Basically turn key on and then see by way of volt meter or test light how long do the glow plugs actually stay on, and also do they cycle on and off. Count seconds or actually time this. This will give you real world info on what your glow plugs are really doing.

Do so while you are chargeing batteries so as not to drain it before starting.

For priming.... There is get it done quickly method... YOU MUST use caution !! Best done with two people. Maybe your Mom can at least be in the vehicle and turn the key for you?
1.Disconnect the glow plugs electrically
2. spray just a little starting fluid in the intake
3. other person cranks engine, it should try to start, spray just enough to get it running some, it should start, at some point it will pick up on its own in less then a minute and run without spraying starting fluid. Be gentle with the starting fluid, and NEVER use it with the glow plugs. Real bad things happen then....

[BlackJohn]

Well firebuild, glad you and Buster are both home parked. having read Christopher's reply today, I most certainly could be wrong about peddle pumping and apoplogize if I led you astray. Never heard of a diesel working that way before without a fuel return line to the tank(s).
Anyway, definitely a battery charge is in order today even if not low, keeps them warm.
You have done well in understanding your machine and diesel workings. Not sure of your confidence under the hood yet but would be worth having a good tester so YOU can diagnose conditions. Lots of help around here usually.


Just keep fueled up every week and with conditioner added in correct proportions. Maybe carry an extra fuel jug and keep that genny in gas too for such emergencies. You are lucky you ddin't freeze out there. Did nobody stop to assist you at all? Diesel cabin heat sounds like another option for you to consider in time.

Starter fluid will get Buster addicted and dangerous in wrong hands.
Those towing companies are something else, another reason to live here in the great cold north.


Stay safe, warm and keep us posted.



John

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Do you have a volt meter or a "test" light?

For priming.... There is get it done quickly method... YOU MUST use caution !! Best done with two people. Maybe your Mom can at least be in the vehicle and turn the key for you?
1.Disconnect the glow plugs electrically
2. spray just a little starting fluid in the intake
3. other person cranks engine, it should try to start, spray just enough to get it running some, it should start, at some point it will pick up on its own in less then a minute and run without spraying starting fluid. Be gentle with the starting fluid, and NEVER use it with the glow plugs. Real bad things happen then....

No volt meter or test light - it's on the list but of course I haven't gotten it.

I don't have a clue how to disconnect the glow plugs electrically, and I don't have any starter fluid.

My Mom can't get into the driver's seat; her movement is limited, and anyway with her state of mind explaining to her what to do wouldn't be easy. She has also never driven and gets extremely anxious.

But ok, let me narrow the question down. If I can get someone else to come over and help me prime it the way I already am equipped to, without disconnecting the glow plugs and so forth, how will I know when we have succeeded?

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

You have done well in understanding your machine and diesel workings. Not sure of your confidence under the hood yet but would be worth having a good tester so YOU can diagnose conditions. Lots of help around here usually.


Just keep fueled up every week and with conditioner added in correct proportions. Maybe carry an extra fuel jug and keep that genny in gas too for such emergencies. You are lucky you ddin't freeze out there. Did nobody stop to assist you at all? Diesel cabin heat sounds like another option for you to consider in time.

Starter fluid will get Buster addicted and dangerous in wrong hands.
Those towing companies are something else, another reason to live here in the great cold north.


Stay safe, warm and keep us posted.



John

I have a diesel cabin heater sitting in a box in the truck. Not installed yet, but will be soon!

I absolutely will keep fueled up from here on, but again, my concern is today. I have the battery charger running already, and the oil pan heater plugged in as well, but it seems like it will be useless going through my cold start ritual if prime isn't there. But how do I KNOW if it's primed? When I was having this problem before, it was summer, so I knew it had worked when the bus simply started. But now... there's the additional obstacle to it starting - the cold - so again, I don't know how to figure out when one problem is solved so I can move on to the other.

My confidence is growing, but not to the point where I'm going to be disconnecting the glow plugs. Things that sounded completely alien to me just a few months ago now make sense, which is how I know it's sinking in!

[EastCoastCB]

When you succeed it will start.
Maybe try this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QsKGLa1yRc

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

When you succeed it will start.

I'm not sure that's true, actually, since I have trouble starting every day, WITH prime. Won't I have to deal with one problem and then the other?

[BlackJohn]

Agree with CB, your engine will fire off, maybe rough for a few seconds and then run seemingly normal.


John

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

When you succeed it will start.
Maybe try this-

Now I'm REALLY confused. That doesn't look remotely like my engine, so I can't even figure out where physically he is doing this.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by firebuild

I have a diesel cabin heater sitting in a box in the truck. Not installed yet, but will be soon!

I absolutely will keep fueled up from here on, but again, my concern is today. I have the battery charger running already, and the oil pan heater plugged in as well, but it seems like it will be useless going through my cold start ritual if prime isn't there. But how do I KNOW if it's primed? When I was having this problem before, it was summer, so I knew it had worked when the bus simply started. But now... there's the additional obstacle to it starting - the cold - so again, I don't know how to figure out when one problem is solved so I can move on to the other.

My confidence is growing, but not to the point where I'm going to be disconnecting the glow plugs. Things that sounded completely alien to me just a few months ago now make sense, which is how I know it's sinking in!

For sure, do not mess with what you are not totally familiar as in glow plug relay. the garage that installed should test and repair under warranty and NO cost to you. If you think they are good mechanics, stick with them and get advice you can compare here or elsewhere.
Good luck, it'll go!


John

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by firebuild

Now I'm REALLY confused. That doesn't look remotely like my engine, so I can't even figure out where physically he is doing this.

Its the same engine. You just have a van.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

For sure, do not mess with what you are not totally familiar as in glow plug relay. the garage that installed should test and repair under warranty and NO cost to you. If you think they are good mechanics, stick with them and get advice you can compare here or elsewhere.
Good luck, it'll go!


John

They are definitely NOT good mechanics - these are the ones who put the gasoline in, and they have stated that they don't know what they're doing with old IDI's. But they're the only ones I can get to do it at no cost to me, since they installed it.

[EastCoastCB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuMsliqRcM

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Its the same engine. You just have a van.

I'm just telling you, it doesn't look like what's under my hood.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by firebuild

They are definitely NOT good mechanics - these are the ones who put the gasoline in, and they have stated that they don't know what they're doing with old IDI's. But they're the only ones I can get to do it at no cost to me, since they installed it.

Ohh, ok then. Did they do the relay and glow plugs too? Best be done with them once the relay gets sorted out. It may be fine too.
Your small oil pan heater might be confusing what computer is used to reading from various sensors. Unplug it and while the engine is still cold after priming, see if glow plugs aid the cold start at all.

Also, with engine off after heating the glow plugs, you should feel warmth in that area where they are in the block. Check each area for heat if you can reach at all. There's some proof for the relay working.


John

[cadillackid]

John - im not sure why ford decided not to have a return line on the Powerstroke 7.3s, but there are lots of guiys over the years that modded them to have one.. it seemed wierd to me as every diesel i had been around always had one..



again im not sure how the OP's IDI is, ive not worked on an IDI..


OP - measure the current the glowplugs are pulling.. that ultimnately will tell you whether all of them are working or not.. the relay can engage all it wants.. and a test light can light up bright.. but if the glowplugs have the wrong resistance.. either due to plug or wiring failure, or being the incorrect plugs, it will show in the amount of current on the Glowplug side of the relay.. invest in a nice clamp-type meter.. this will give you ballpark. typically the surge current will be high and reduce as the plugs warm up.. there should be a published resistance for the approved plugs... so as a whole you can add up the amp pull and get an average of what is being pulled , run it through ohms law and determine if its even close or not..

-Christopher

[BlackJohn]

Chris, weird to me as never seen it before either.


Would you agree the pedal does nothing for an otherwise plumbed diesel, not like the spray of gas happening on carbed gassers?
fuel injection doesn't work that way that I know of.


You may have gone over her head re glow plugs and clamp on but I agree totally. I know she doesn't have that tool so gave simple suggestion for her, for today to get running.

I did fail to mention a fuse check for glow plug relay, maybe they blew under heavy load.


John

[cadillackid]

a pedal to the floor on a diesel is going to allow for more fuel to go into the cylnder.. since the air isnt regulated by the pedal, the fuel is completely, so floored pedal will allow for larger shots.. seems like it might help clear air out of the lines quicker..
-Christopher