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Old 10-10-2019, 10:14 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Not sure, but if "beefed up" it very well might.
It's not as though you're gonna be out on the dragstrip in your 400HP Camaro with wheelie bars on the back, so it might very well work in your bus!

The weight might be an issue? You'd have to talk to a transmission expert that knows the TH400 and its performance limitations...

.........................................
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:42 PM   #62
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an allison 6 speed on a non electronic motor works but not nearly as well as when its tied up to an electronic motor.. they can indeed live behind gas truck motors.. but not race engines.. they were offered in the 8.1 litre chevy gas engines.. most stock 1000s can take an input shaft speed up to 4500. rpm I believe..



the 4th and 5th gen TCMs can run with just a TPS.. however withoput engine loading data, requested torque, cruise sert speeds etc they dont operate quite as well.. I ran mine with just TPS when I first installed it and it worked OK... but once I created a solid Data link between the engine and trans it really came alive and is a beautiful piece of kit...



the TH400. .. great but outdated.. nice in a hot rod or a van.. but its a 3 speed Non locklup transmission.. the AT545 and the TH400 share some parts.. but ultimately it can be built strong but is outdated in that iots 3 speeds and non lock...



at least go 4L60 if you want to use a billet hotrod style trans over a medium duty unit..



Id want any light-duty van / truck trans to be 'built' before I installed it in a school bus..



heck i even had my 1000 built by suncoast just so I knew it would take whatever I toss at it..
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:28 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
an allison 6 speed on a non electronic motor works but not nearly as well as when its tied up to an electronic motor.. they can indeed live behind gas truck motors.. but not race engines.. they were offered in the 8.1 litre chevy gas engines.. most stock 1000s can take an input shaft speed up to 4500. rpm I believe..



the 4th and 5th gen TCMs can run with just a TPS.. however withoput engine loading data, requested torque, cruise sert speeds etc they dont operate quite as well.. I ran mine with just TPS when I first installed it and it worked OK... but once I created a solid Data link between the engine and trans it really came alive and is a beautiful piece of kit...





the TH400. .. great but outdated.. nice in a hot rod or a van.. but its a 3 speed Non locklup transmission.. the AT545 and the TH400 share some parts.. but ultimately it can be built strong but is outdated in that iots 3 speeds and non lock...



at least go 4L60 if you want to use a billet hotrod style trans over a medium duty unit..



Id want any light-duty van / truck trans to be 'built' before I installed it in a school bus..



heck i even had my 1000 built by suncoast just so I knew it would take whatever I toss at it..

thanks Christopher - - I have a 4 speed auto in an early 90's 14000 gvwr chevy crewcab - it hasn't moved for a number of years since 2 black bears smashed the drivers side window and destroyed the interior of the truck - the fresh motor that was in it now does duty in my pickup - any chance that transmission would do the job? - the bus weighs 17160 as it sits - I doubt there will be more than 1000 to 1500 lbs added to that total - I don't know the model # of the transmission - I do know it holds back well going down hills
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:35 PM   #64
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I'd look at the 4L80. The 4L60 is based off the smaller TH350 The 4L80 is the stronger version and only a couple inches longer. You're gonna want the lockup and o/d with the 4L80 vs the TH400.

I'm assuming a bus full of sled dogs will weigh like a bus full of kids

You can get a stand alone controller for the 4L60 or 80. Look at Jegs, or Summit Racing for an idea of cost.

And can the 2sp rear axles be used with an automatic? I've only ever used 'em in IHC trucks with a manual.
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:43 PM   #65
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thanks Christopher - - I have a 4 speed auto in an early 90's 14000 gvwr chevy crewcab - it hasn't moved for a number of years since 2 black bears smashed the drivers side window and destroyed the interior of the truck - the fresh motor that was in it now does duty in my pickup - any chance that transmission would do the job? - the bus weighs 17160 as it sits - I doubt there will be more than 1000 to 1500 lbs added to that total - I don't know the model # of the transmission - I do know it holds back well going down hills
If it was a HD 3/4 or full ton p'up it would be the 4L80.
And that should mate right up to your 454 -- the good thing about GM evolution.

The GM 4sp auto's also have a lower 1st gear which will help getting that bus moving compared to the TH400.

This link should help you figure out which one you have
https://mechanicbase.com/transmissio...e-differences/

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...utomatic/4l80e
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
If it was a HD 3/4 or full ton p'up it would be the 4L80.
And that should mate right up to your 454 -- the good thing about GM evolution.

The GM 4sp auto's also have a lower 1st gear which will help getting that bus moving compared to the TH400.

This link should help you figure out which one you have
https://mechanicbase.com/transmissio...e-differences/
the one ton is the heaviest that GM made - the truck came with factory air bags and very heavy springs - I'm going to give it a bit more thought and research - thanks
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:44 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
an allison 6 speed on a non electronic motor works but not nearly as well as when its tied up to an electronic motor.. they can indeed live behind gas truck motors.. but not race engines.. they were offered in the 8.1 litre chevy gas engines.. most stock 1000s can take an input shaft speed up to 4500. rpm I believe..



the 4th and 5th gen TCMs can run with just a TPS.. however withoput engine loading data, requested torque, cruise sert speeds etc they dont operate quite as well.. I ran mine with just TPS when I first installed it and it worked OK... but once I created a solid Data link between the engine and trans it really came alive and is a beautiful piece of kit...



the TH400. .. great but outdated.. nice in a hot rod or a van.. but its a 3 speed Non locklup transmission.. the AT545 and the TH400 share some parts.. but ultimately it can be built strong but is outdated in that iots 3 speeds and non lock...



at least go 4L60 if you want to use a billet hotrod style trans over a medium duty unit..



Id want any light-duty van / truck trans to be 'built' before I installed it in a school bus..



heck i even had my 1000 built by suncoast just so I knew it would take whatever I toss at it..
I was told that the 4L80e would be fine in the bus - I'll check tomorrow to be sure it's the right transmission in my sidelined crew cab - what sort of wiring and extra parts would be required?
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Old 10-11-2019, 09:37 PM   #68
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Here's a kit that is fairly complete with just about everything you'll need except the crossmember. But it's pricey!
This one can handle 850HP.

You might do better price wise with a "local" to you trans rebuilder.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...700p/overview/
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:42 PM   #69
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Great bus, how is the interior or did I miss the pictures? Are all the dogs going to be inside or also on a trailer behind?
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:12 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Here's a kit that is fairly complete with just about everything you'll need except the crossmember. But it's pricey!
This one can handle 850HP.

You might do better price wise with a "local" to you trans rebuilder.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...700p/overview/
that's pretty impressive and it would handle my C60 bus with ease - but I doubt my bank account has enough horse power to turn the deal - lol
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:21 AM   #71
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Great bus, how is the interior or did I miss the pictures? Are all the dogs going to be inside or also on a trailer behind?
Johan
the interior is pretty ratty - no insulation and old furniture from a trailer - the whole interior will need to be stripped and start again from the beginning - I bought the bus because I liked the power train- the motor alone is worth close to 3 times the price I paid for the bus, and it has new tires all round - the dogs will ride inside - once the bus has been safetied for BC, I'll enclose the back porch, make a loading ramp, and divide 5 or 6 ' from the back of the bus to make the garage where the dogs will ride- there are a few things to fix/repair/or change before it's ready for a safety inspection - the conversion, such as it is, will have to get us through this winter
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:24 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
Here's a kit that is fairly complete with just about everything you'll need except the crossmember. But it's pricey!
This one can handle 850HP.

You might do better price wise with a "local" to you trans rebuilder.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...700p/overview/
it appears that I may already have a suitable transmission - I'll get my son to check it out to make sure it's not on it's last legs before I have it installed - that won't happen until spring even if it's a good strong transmission
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Old 10-12-2019, 01:35 PM   #73
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it appears that I may already have a suitable transmission - I'll get my son to check it out to make sure it's not on it's last legs before I have it installed - that won't happen until spring even if it's a good strong transmission
I'd have doubts about a half ton truck's 4 speed auto being stout enough in stock form to handle the added weight=load that would be placed on it in a truck to bus "transplant". Especially with your bus's 400HP big block!

Maybe after it was rebuilt with high performance guts, but you'll have to spend a bit to beef it up to handle the added stresses.
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Old 10-12-2019, 02:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
I'd have doubts about a half ton truck's 4 speed auto being stout enough in stock form to handle the added weight=load that would be placed on it in a truck to bus "transplant". Especially with your bus's 400HP big block!

Maybe after it was rebuilt with high performance guts, but you'll have to spend a bit to beef it up to handle the added stresses.
it's not out of a half ton - it's out of a 14000 GVWR heavy duty crewcab - it came equipped with either a 4L80e or a 4L60 - the 4L80 or the 4L80e - is robust enough to handle the C60 series buses - the 4L60 would be too light for the job and the 4L60 doesn't have lockup, while the 4L80 does have the lockup - having driven the crewcab for many miles, I know the transmission holds back well, even with a heavy load on steep hills - I am going to check the shape of the pan under the transmission to confirm which trans it is, but having a lock up trans should confirm that it's a 4L80 - I'll have the guts inspected before installing it, although any swapping won't be until next spring at the earliest
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:03 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
If it was a HD 3/4 or full ton p'up it would be the 4L80.
And that should mate right up to your 454 -- the good thing about GM evolution.

The GM 4sp auto's also have a lower 1st gear which will help getting that bus moving compared to the TH400.

This link should help you figure out which one you have
https://mechanicbase.com/transmissio...e-differences/

The Novak Guide to the GM 4L80E Automatic Transmission

......................... - that sounds promising able to handle up to 22,000 lbs - my bus won't be more than 19000
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Old 10-13-2019, 02:56 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
that's the one - I have to check, I think the cable linkage is undone
Regardless whether the 2 spd shifter is cable or electric I would be inclined to inspect/service the unit b4 trying it out, it may be disconnected for a reason.
Some of us (ahem) have been known to rely on low gear as a park brake and I have heard of instances where a partially engaged 2 spd has jumped out of gear after the driver had left the scene.

I once owned a truck with a 2 spd rear dif, it worked flawlessly and I had a lot of fun driving it. I have also driven one that was sticky and quickly decided not to shift it on the fly.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:00 PM   #77
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Regardless whether the 2 spd shifter is cable or electric I would be inclined to inspect/service the unit b4 trying it out, it may be disconnected for a reason.
Some of us (ahem) have been known to rely on low gear as a park brake and I have heard of instances where a partially engaged 2 spd has jumped out of gear after the driver had left the scene.

I once owned a truck with a 2 spd rear dif, it worked flawlessly and I had a lot of fun driving it. I have also driven one that was sticky and quickly decided not to shift it on the fly.
we hooked it up this morning and I was disappointed - it didn't work as it should have worked
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:14 AM   #78
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Both the 4l60 and 4l80 had lock up torque converters.

I would think neither would be well suited in a full size bus. The 4l60 would be too weak, as would the 4l80 if you're putting out a true 600 lbft of torque. That and your gvw would be too much for either transmission according to the rating as well. But they would work better then a 4 speed manual and non-functioning 2 speed rear axle.
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:00 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Both the 4l60 and 4l80 had lock up torque converters.

I would think neither would be well suited in a full size bus. The 4l60 would be too weak, as would the 4l80 if you're putting out a true 600 lbft of torque. That and your gvw would be too much for either transmission according to the rating as well. But they would work better then a 4 speed manual and non-functioning 2 speed rear axle.
I am faaaar from a transmission guru. Have patience

I would be surprised to find that GM has produced any transmissions without a lockup converter in the last 25+ years or more.

Am I mistaken?
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:44 AM   #80
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Both the 4l60 and 4l80 had lock up torque converters.

I would think neither would be well suited in a full size bus. The 4l60 would be too weak, as would the 4l80 if you're putting out a true 600 lbft of torque. That and your gvw would be too much for either transmission according to the rating as well. But they would work better then a 4 speed manual and non-functioning 2 speed rear axle.
I was going by specs - my bus is an 8 window, so not full a full size bus - a lot of opinions about this, even different specifications depending which page I read - definitely the 4L80 is heavier duty than the 4L60 - one spec sheet I read said the 4L80 was good up to 22,000 LBS - my bus will weigh under 20,000 fully loaded - before I make the decision to change transmissions, which won't happen until next spring at the earliest, I'll talk it over with my son, who worked in GM dealerships for almost 20 years, including being shop diagnostician in a busy dealership, and has had his own shop for the past 15 years - he's had experience at building custom trucks for competition too ----- I took the bus for a short 2 mile spin yesterday morning before the law was out patrolling, and was pleased with how much better it ran after the 600 mile inaugural drive home from Edmonton
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