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Old 10-14-2019, 10:46 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I am faaaar from a transmission guru. Have patience

I would be surprised to find that GM has produced any transmissions without a lockup converter in the last 25+ years or more.

Am I mistaken?
according to the specs I read, the 4L60 is a non lockup trans
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:56 AM   #82
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Here's a kit that is fairly complete with just about everything you'll need except the crossmember. But it's pricey!
This one can handle 850HP.

You might do better price wise with a "local" to you trans rebuilder.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...700p/overview/
sounds like a great trans - out side my budget though
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:28 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I am faaaar from a transmission guru. Have patience

I would be surprised to find that GM has produced any transmissions without a lockup converter in the last 25+ years or more.

Am I mistaken?
That's a pretty safe assumption for anything automotive/light duty.
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Old 10-14-2019, 02:01 PM   #84
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So what heavy duty auto trans was GM mating to school busses before the "computer age"?
There must be a non electronic, purely mechanical, Allison variant used in them for many years???
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteg59 View Post
So what heavy duty auto trans was GM mating to school busses before the "computer age"?
There must be a non electronic, purely mechanical, Allison variant used in them for many years???
The 545. Could use the 643.
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:58 PM   #86
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If it was a HD 3/4 or full ton p'up it would be the 4L80.
And that should mate right up to your 454 -- the good thing about GM evolution.

The GM 4sp auto's also have a lower 1st gear which will help getting that bus moving compared to the TH400.

This link should help you figure out which one you have
https://mechanicbase.com/transmissio...e-differences/

The Novak Guide to the GM 4L80E Automatic Transmission


I talked to my son today about converting the bus to the 4L80 transmission taken from my 91 heavy duty one ton crew cab - he says the transmission would do fine, and that a trans out of the 91 would require the least electronics - my 91 would have all the correct wiring harness to do the conversion - he mentioned that the cross member would have to be moved - it was fun to listen to my son rattle off the history of that transmission, the difference from the 4L60, and why the 4L80 would work better than the predecessor, other parts that would be needed, and the problems that might be encountered, all confirming my opinion, and that of other's, that he is one of the most knowledgeable and skillful mechanics in this area - it's fun having a son you can justifiably be proud of
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:13 PM   #87
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The 545. Could use the 643.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
we hooked it up this morning and I was disappointed - it didn't work as it should have worked
It's not unusual for the solenoid to need a good cleaning. I never had to work on mine so can't help much. Here is a thread that may be useful https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com...in-high.46239/
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:58 AM   #88
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It's not unusual for the solenoid to need a good cleaning. I never had to work on mine so can't help much. Here is a thread that may be useful https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com...in-high.46239/


..........................................
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:49 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
according to the specs I read, the 4L60 is a non lockup trans
I have read about lockup issues with the 4L60. I am puzzled as to how a non-lockup transmissions can have lockup problems?

I told you I wasn't a transmission guru

Gotta love auto-correct.... Fortunately I caught it this time.. 'Cause I certainly am not a transgender guru....
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:56 PM   #90
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Can the non lockup Trans's be made lockup, by simply adding a lockup torque converter?
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:24 AM   #91
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Can the non lockup Trans's be made lockup, by simply adding a lockup torque converter?
No, adding torque converter lock up not only requires a torque converter with an internal clutch assembly, it also requires a different main shaft, valve body, and control solenoids to make it work.

You can get lockup like characteristics in a non-lockup trans by lowering the stall speed of the torque converter, but you'll lose a lot of your torque multiplication and acceleration speed that way, and it won't be a 1:1 efficiency, only about 95%.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:42 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I have read about lockup issues with the 4L60. I am puzzled as to how a non-lockup transmissions can have lockup problems?

I told you I wasn't a transmission guru

Gotta love auto-correct.... Fortunately I caught it this time.. 'Cause I certainly am not a transgender guru....
......................................... - according to my son/mechanic, the newer 4L60 does lock up - it's commonly found in 1/2 ton pickups - the 4L80 is in every thing from HD 3/4 tons and up - turns out my pickup has the same transmission
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:38 AM   #93
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......................................... - according to my son/mechanic, the newer 4L60 does lock up - it's commonly found in 1/2 ton pickups - the 4L80 is in every thing from HD 3/4 tons and up - turns out my pickup has the same transmission
Do you know of an easy way to tell the difference between the 4L60 and 4L80?

I have one of them in my Chevy 2500 but don't know which one.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #94
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the 4L60 was a later version of the 700-R4, the 700-R4 was a lockup trans as is the 4L60.. 4L60E was a fully electronic variant of which there are mamny aftermarket controllers around to operate it standalone.. I built one myself a few years ago.. they arent rocket science..


the 4L80E was a heavier duty transmission variant.. as far as whether it can handle a full size bus or not.. a good one probably can.. they were put behind the duramaxx's in the vans because the trans tunnel was too small for an allison..



all of the P30-style based step vans and short busses built later had 4L80E's..



Allison variants that mated to medium duty were 545's 643's and 1000s.. the 1000's were (still are) built with a Spec-able Bell.. one of such bells is a GM bell so it can be mated to the GMC platform.. I know that bell fits the 8.1 gas and 6.6 Duramaxx.. it may be a standard chevy bell and fit the smaller gas motors too.. you'd have to check..

allison 1000s require a controller they are electronic..


allison 1000s were first released for use behind the Duramaxx 2500HD / 3500HD pickup trucks.. they are a variant of the allison 2000. early versions were 5 speed and had issues with high torque breaking the 4/5 drum loose and burning up the frictions for 4th gear... later versions.. of 1000 dont suffer that..
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #95
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Do you know of an easy way to tell the difference between the 4L60 and 4L80?

I have one of them in my Chevy 2500 but don't know which one.
the 4L60 has a square oil pan the 4L80 has an odd shape pan - if your 3/4 ton is a HD, it has the 4L80
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:28 PM   #96
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allison 1000s require a controller they are electronic..


allison 1000s were first released for use behind the Duramaxx 2500HD / 3500HD pickup trucks.. they are a variant of the allison 2000. early versions were 5 speed and had issues with high torque breaking the 4/5 drum loose and burning up the frictions for 4th gear... later versions.. of 1000 dont suffer that..
Scuse me, (quickly hijacking the thread here). I have a 01 International 3800 with an Allison 1000 bolted to a 444E. How would I know which variant that is?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:37 PM   #97
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Scuse me, (quickly hijacking the thread here). I have a 01 International 3800 with an Allison 1000 bolted to a 444E. How would I know which variant that is?
that I can't help you with, but I'm sure there are people here that can
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