How do I resurrect a 6V92? - Page 3

Crown_Guy · 11-12-2019, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mtrdrms

I hear ya, guys. I know its a different animal than my bluebird. I know what I'm getting into (sort of). I'm hoping this community can help me when issues arise and what I lack in funds, I make up in wisdom, resourcefulness and grit. I'm going for it.

You should go check out Bus Conversion Magazine and find other forums that deal with coach conversion/hobby activities. Coaches are DIFFERENT and unless you deal with them you don't have any frame of reference to start solving problems. There's almost no common points of intersecting knowledge between coaches and school buses.

You can learn and there is an extremely steep learning curve, but don't expect too many other folks to be able to help you because you'll be on your own in uncharted waters for anyone not generally familiar with coaches.

And you need $$$$$$$$$$$$ did I make that clear enough. They don't nickel and dime you to death.....They 1 and 2 thousand dollar you to death. Everything costs $1k+ when you need to fix it, whatever it is. The worst part is that sometimes they don't stay fixed. Very annoying.

You sound like one of those guys who'll be talked about for some years to come. Quite an adventure.... but from a distance, I like to watch (hat tip to Chauncy Gardener). Best of luck and don't try this with any kind of time deadline for a returning home. It'll take just as much time as it takes.

Mtrdrms · 11-12-2019, 01:17 PM

Can I ask what is so different? What are these major expenses I have to look forward to? I'm not being a wise guy, I'm interested in learning.

PNW_Steve · 11-12-2019, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown_Guy

You should go check out Bus Conversion Magazine and find other forums that deal with coach conversion/hobby activities. Coaches are DIFFERENT and unless you deal with them you don't have any frame of reference to start solving problems. There's almost no common points of intersecting knowledge between coaches and school buses.

You can learn and there is an extremely steep learning curve, but don't expect too many other folks to be able to help you because you'll be on your own in uncharted waters for anyone not generally familiar with coaches.

And you need $$$$$$$$$$$$ did I make that clear enough. They don't nickel and dime you to death.....They 1 and 2 thousand dollar you to death. Everything costs $1k+ when you need to fix it, whatever it is. The worst part is that sometimes they don't stay fixed. Very annoying.

You sound like one of those guys who'll be talked about for some years to come. Quite an adventure.... but from a distance, I like to watch (hat tip to Chauncy Gardener). Best of luck and don't try this with any kind of time deadline for a returning home. It'll take just as much time as it takes.

Opinions vary

My Eagle was not any more complicated than my Bluebird. The Eagle rode better but aside from that they are not much different to drive.

The Prevost I drove was 45' long x 102" wide. That one took a little getting used to.

Parts and services can definitely get spendy on a coach compared to a skoolie.

I am not trying to be argumentative. Just sharing my experiences. I am a newby at this compared to you. I didn't get mixed up with buses until 1994.

WIbluebird · 11-12-2019, 01:49 PM

Coaches have hundreds of additional failure points vs a school bus. They often have proprietary and/or highly complex suspension, hugely complicated HVAC systems and the motors are bigger (think like Detroit Series 60, Cummins ISC, etc).

Prevosts have little airbags between the body and the chassis, spaced every 4 ft or so down the frame rails. Guess how much it is to replace every time one of those little suckers goes out? Bodywork is also several magnitudes more expensive then school buses. If you want to see real sticker shock look up what a Prevost or out-of-production MCI replacement windshield costs

Also motorcoach dealers and parts centers are few and far in between. They cater to an even more exclusive industry than school buses and their prices reflect it. Prevost, MCI and the others all have tons of proprietary parts that only work on their products and nobody elses'.

I wouldn't even consider buying a motorcoach of any kind unless I had both (A) tons of free time on my hands and (B) at least $20K/yr budget.

cadillackid · 11-12-2019, 02:04 PM

others have pretty much nailed it.. proprietary paerts that asre only used on that coach or manufacturer.. a School bus chassis, especially a conventional (has a hood on the front).. is essentially a Box truck chassis with a bus body on it..

the Freightliner FS65 thomas busses were Freightliner FL60 / 70 / 80 box truck chassis..

the International 3800 was essentially a 4700 / 4900 box truck chassis..

the GMC school bus chassis were C60 or KodiaK truck chassis essentially..

so axles, engine parts, alternators, fans, air springs, brakes, etc are pretty common.. as not only were these used on many busses they were also in trucks..

a Prevost coach bus uses different suspension systems than an MCI vs a VanHool, Temsa, etc.. sure some parts like brake drums or pads or air dryers or A/C compressors might be the same between them, a lot is not..

the Bus body on a school bus was pretty simple, except for the new busses like the Bluebird Visions, and Thomas C2's most bus body systems were just switches , circuit breakers, and motors, lights, etc..

Coaches went to more complex systems earlier than school busses.. coaches often with power outlets at seats, multiple lighting systems, multi-zone Heating / cooling, massive expensive alternators.. (ever paid $1800 for an alternator?).. MultiPlex comms networks, PLC controllers, etc.. if you blow a main board on a bus PLC, sure you may be able to go online and find a generic Allen Bradley control board.. but how will you load the proprietary firmware onto it?

when you tear apart and gut a school bus, the usual worst that can happen is your bus wont start because you. ripped out a wire that went to a door switch or roof hatch.. you. find the inpiut to the buzzer or computer, jump it and done..

imagine if you destroyed the network between the dashboard switch panel , the PLC, and the electrical controller on a Vanhool.... where would you start? can you detect an analyze J1939 and RS485 base comms?

-Christopher

Mtrdrms · 11-12-2019, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

at least $20K/yr budget.

20k a year?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

imagine if you destroyed the network between the dashboard switch panel , the PLC, and the electrical controller on a Vanhool.... where would you start? can you detect an analyze J1939 and RS485 base comms?

I don't even know what that means!

You guys are starting to scare me....

cadillackid · 11-12-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mtrdrms

20k a year?

I don't even know what that means!

You guys are starting to scare me....

no, its meant to mean BE CAREFUL... have a contigency plan.. you may not need to fix anything on the bus.. who knows.. but i sure wouldnt trek out in a coach (or any bus) like a broke Hippie..

my comments about systems are meant so before you go ripping out the overhead consoles, and HVAC systems and wiring that looks meaningless be sure to know what you are doing...

EastCoastCB · 11-12-2019, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

Coaches have hundreds of additional failure points vs a school bus. They often have proprietary and/or highly complex suspension, hugely complicated HVAC systems and the motors are bigger (think like Detroit Series 60, Cummins ISC, etc).

Prevosts have little airbags between the body and the chassis, spaced every 4 ft or so down the frame rails. Guess how much it is to replace every time one of those little suckers goes out? Bodywork is also several magnitudes more expensive then school buses. If you want to see real sticker shock look up what a Prevost or out-of-production MCI replacement windshield costs

Also motorcoach dealers and parts centers are few and far in between. They cater to an even more exclusive industry than school buses and their prices reflect it. Prevost, MCI and the others all have tons of proprietary parts that only work on their products and nobody elses'.

I wouldn't even consider buying a motorcoach of any kind unless I had both (A) tons of free time on my hands and (B) at least $20K/yr budget.

Class 8 > medium duty.

EastCoastCB · 11-12-2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

others have pretty much nailed it.. proprietary paerts that asre only used on that coach or manufacturer.. a School bus chassis, especially a conventional (has a hood on the front).. is essentially a Box truck chassis with a bus body on it..

the Freightliner FS65 thomas busses were Freightliner FL60 / 70 / 80 box truck chassis..

the International 3800 was essentially a 4700 / 4900 box truck chassis..

the GMC school bus chassis were C60 or KodiaK truck chassis essentially..

so axles, engine parts, alternators, fans, air springs, brakes, etc are pretty common.. as not only were these used on many busses they were also in trucks..

a Prevost coach bus uses different suspension systems than an MCI vs a VanHool, Temsa, etc.. sure some parts like brake drums or pads or air dryers or A/C compressors might be the same between them, a lot is not..

the Bus body on a school bus was pretty simple, except for the new busses like the Bluebird Visions, and Thomas C2's most bus body systems were just switches , circuit breakers, and motors, lights, etc..

Coaches went to more complex systems earlier than school busses.. coaches often with power outlets at seats, multiple lighting systems, multi-zone Heating / cooling, massive expensive alternators.. (ever paid $1800 for an alternator?).. MultiPlex comms networks, PLC controllers, etc.. if you blow a main board on a bus PLC, sure you may be able to go online and find a generic Allen Bradley control board.. but how will you load the proprietary firmware onto it?

when you tear apart and gut a school bus, the usual worst that can happen is your bus wont start because you. ripped out a wire that went to a door switch or roof hatch.. you. find the inpiut to the buzzer or computer, jump it and done..

imagine if you destroyed the network between the dashboard switch panel , the PLC, and the electrical controller on a Vanhool.... where would you start? can you detect an analyze J1939 and RS485 base comms?

-Christopher

Modern school buses also have multiplexed electrical systems.

WIbluebird · 11-12-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Class 8 > medium duty.

No doubt about that at all, just that it comes at a substantially higher cost.

EastCoastCB · 11-12-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

No doubt about that at all, just that it comes at a substantially higher cost.

I don't think it costs any/much more to fix one engine type vs the other. Ever priced DT466E parts?

Truthseeker4449 · 11-12-2019, 05:30 PM

How much for an injector in a DT466? IIRC an injector for a Detroit DD13 is $1200 and the engine has a somewhat difficult priming procedure that requires an external pump to build pressure before the engine can be started for the first time. Failure to do the job right within a certain time-frame and you ruin the entire set of injectors. When I was at a very large company that exclusively ran big coaches I heard some horror stories involving a total of 3 sets of injectors in one coach and while I was away for training my shop ruined a set.

o1marc · 11-12-2019, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I don't think it costs any/much more to fix one engine type vs the other. Ever priced DT466E parts?

Did the buyer ever resolve that issue?

DT466E injector cost? $300+ new, $185 reman.

PNW_Steve · 11-12-2019, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Modern school buses also have multiplexed electrical systems.

And the coaches that I have driven did not. Well, the 45' Prevost may have. I didn't check.

My Eagle suspension was very simple.

While I don't get excited about turning wrenches I was able to handle basic repairs myself. I paid a shop for more challenging issues. Over 6+ years and almost 250k miles I spent less than $3000 on having shop work done.

I had a ball traveling in my coach. My experience does not mirror yours.

I loved the mammoth baggage bays, great ride and no wheel wells. I would say that the roof raise was easier. An outfit down in Oregon user to make front an rear replacement caps that accommodated the roof raise .

I wouldn't be inclined to apply blanket statements when referring to a variety of rigs. For example: I drove a Thomas with the 8.2 Detroit and n Allison AT-545. It was terrible.

So it would follow that all Thomas are junk as well as all Detroit engine and all Allison transmissions are awful.

Not very good logic is it?

EastCoastCB · 11-13-2019, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o1marc

Did the buyer ever resolve that issue?

DT466E injector cost? $300+ new, $185 reman.

What buyer what issue??

PNW_Steve · 11-13-2019, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

Coaches have hundreds of additional failure points vs a school bus. They often have proprietary and/or highly complex suspension, hugely complicated HVAC systems and the motors are bigger (think like Detroit Series 60, Cummins ISC, etc).

Prevosts have little airbags between the body and the chassis, spaced every 4 ft or so down the frame rails. Guess how much it is to replace every time one of those little suckers goes out? Bodywork is also several magnitudes more expensive then school buses. If you want to see real sticker shock look up what a Prevost or out-of-production MCI replacement windshield costs

Also motorcoach dealers and parts centers are few and far in between. They cater to an even more exclusive industry than school buses and their prices reflect it. Prevost, MCI and the others all have tons of proprietary parts that only work on their products and nobody elses'.

I wouldn't even consider buying a motorcoach of any kind unless I had both (A) tons of free time on my hands and (B) at least $20K/yr budget.

Everyone has their own perspective. I have owned, driven and converted coach and school buses. I get the distinct impression that most of the folks speaking out in this discussion have not owned, converted and lived in a coach.

I decline to have a duel with an unarmed man.

Thanks Everyone.

cadillackid · 11-13-2019, 04:16 PM

ive never owned or converted a coach myself, however i have helped to fix broken things on a coach.. and I spent years driving a brand new professionally converted prevost back N forth to florida from ohio a few times a year and some other places for a couple friends of mine..

these guys were Rich rich like crazy... so repair bills didnt bother them but I did see them... the yearly maintenance they sent that bus out for...

ive tracked down issues with PLC's and electrical switch issues on Coaches, and helped to fix FUBAR'd Air conditioning systems and air getting into fuel lines...

so i dont speak completely from an armchair... if I ever own a coach it will be like the rest of my busses, never converted or lived-in just driven lots...