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Old 08-19-2017, 03:35 PM   #1
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2004 IC T444E Air Actuated Louver?

OK I was innocently looking for a place to mount a 19" electric fan to push air through my cooling system. Ive seen a set of louvers on the front of the radiator stack. I always thought they were redirecting or rather straightening the airflow before entry. Today since I was looking close at mounting this fan at that location, I noticed the air line and piston actuator mounted to the side of this louver assy. This thing opens and closes fully.
Anyone know anything about this system and how it works? I get that it's a cold weather air dam but how is it told to open and close under what conditions? This thing can be replaced by a vinyl manual air dam if need be and that fan will drop right in its place. Im much more concerned about the heat margins on these engines especially towing as I am- than I am about cold weather operation.


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Old 08-19-2017, 03:49 PM   #2
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Anyone know anything about this system and how it works? I get that it's a cold weather air dam but how is it told to open and close under what conditions? This thing can be replaced by a vinyl manual air dam if need be and that fan will drop right in its place. Im much more concerned about the heat margins on these engines especially towing as I am- than I am about cold weather operation.


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That closes in cold weather until coolant warms-up. It's air-actuated, usually. Shutterstat.

Is your fan clutch operating properly? Are the shrouds intact? Good coolant? or just preemptive-strike?
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:36 PM   #3
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Preemptive strike. Anyone who's driven through the Mohave in summer has seen the results of the poor cooling margins some of these turbo diesels have in those conditions - Burned hulks of RV's or carbon burn spots where one burned. So I figure a $200 fan and a couple of 20# ABC fire extinguishers can go a long way toward helping avoid that.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:00 PM   #4
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yep I have those air shutters on my carpenter bus.. and they *WORK* if you happen to be travelling in wicked cold weather.. they keep your heater nice and warm inside.

id be surprised if your 444E overheats since you have a 2000 series trans.. or perhaps you have really short rear gears?

I was recently out with mine in near 100 degree and humoid sunny weather with the A/C Blasting and the warmest I saw was a quick 210 when I was on a long 6% grade.. but quickly dropped back to 202 after that...

making sure your belt fan clutch is good goes a long way... and navistar likes them to come on LATE.. so you can re-clock it.. or if you have an electric clutch, re-program the computer to turn it on earlier than the 214 they want it to activate...

if you dont plan on running the bus in wicked cold weather you can remove the air shutters..

also i'll say that my 444E is a texas bus and doesnt have those shutters.. I had it out in 0f ohio winter weather and my temp still reached operating. and my heaters were warm even driving around in town. (and i like it warm enough in the bus to wear a short sleeve shirt).. so my guess is removing them wont hurt a thing.

not sure how much an electric fan will help.. probably some if you locate it on the radiator half only.. (or do you not have the split radiator?
-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:19 PM   #5
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It would be nice if those were available aftermarket for our daily drivers. Sometimes, a winter front isn't available or they're a PITA to attach.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:32 PM   #6
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sounds like he is going to have a set available. those were installed on northern bus fleets fairly often. in ohio here they were a Pretty common item on the older busses.. im guessing they still put them on the new ones.. though I havent seen them. at least not in central ohio.. but it may be the newer busses run hotter on their own because of emissions standards.. most engines burn cleaner when they are running warmer.

they are a permanantly installed item and not a portable device like the front bra is thats used on some busses in cold winter.
-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:35 PM   #7
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sounds like he is going to have a set available. those were installed on northern bus fleets fairly often. in ohio here they were a Pretty common item on the older busses.. im guessing they still put them on the new ones.. though I havent seen them. at least not in central ohio.. but it may be the newer busses run hotter on their own because of emissions standards.. most engines burn cleaner when they are running warmer.

they are a permanantly installed item and not a portable device like the front bra is thats used on some busses in cold winter.
-Christopher


Thanks guys ... Im still gathering information but Ill be sure to update if I decide to nix or move the louvers. As far as a bra goes, as I am a person who prefers function way before form, Im going to make a custom bra from that heavy school bus seat vinyl I have laying around!

One more ? I seem to have a spin on fuel filter and I cant find any mention of one in the service manuals or even NAPA. Whats the skinny with the red filter?


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Old 08-19-2017, 06:53 PM   #8
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that looks like a fuel / water separator.. im assuming it has a drain valve on the bottom?
the wire could be for a fuel pre-heater, or a water-in-fuel light..

-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:53 PM   #9
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that looks like a fuel / water separator.. im assuming it has a drain valve on the bottom?
the wire could be for a fuel pre-heater, or a water-in-fuel light..

-Christopher


I do have one of those lights ... I just mapped them the other day and there's quite a few of them ... they don't just give you a WARN light on these busses. Is this separator a service item? Or is it like the fuel strainer - clean and replace. The fuel strainer also pulls water off incoming fuel yes?


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Old 08-19-2017, 08:01 PM   #10
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on my DT360 the water / fuel separator is also a filter for larger particles.. so I change it when I change my fuel filter... its a spin-on and readily available..

I think on my bus its 13 Micron and the normal fuel filter is 10. or something like that.

every so often I crack the valve and let a couple ounces of fuel drain on the ground.. its probably supposed to be periodic.. but I just do it when the mood strikes. every few weeks or so.... usually on a mnorning check when everything is cold.
-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:05 PM   #11
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as for the dash lights.. not all of them are hooked up.. if your bus is like mine, right inside the hood cowl on the driver side is a plastic cover that some wires go into.. if you pull that off there will be 2 or 3 bundles of wires and a label... they are "option-builder" wires.. some of them are labelled for various dash lights.. others are remote throttle TPS, etc... they are there for various options either factory ordered or dealer / end-user installed..

the wires have circuit numbers stamped on them,. which correspond to circuit numbers in the navistar service manuals, so you can see what type of signal said wire needs to function... ie the fuel / water light requires a field ground to turn the light on..
-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:21 PM   #12
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I have to ask if your bus runs good or great now as it is with the shutters.
How much are you travelling across the deserts? Never done that so is it possibly cooler to run at night.
I am one of these types that says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I'd leave them as are because they have different sensors that give the engine its running parameters or it might not run so good.
If you ever sell the bus they are definitely worth having in there because the next owner may just live in a colder climate.
My bus has them and they function still after all these years, but are hydraulic. This bus was thrown right off the production line into working at -20 to -40 F temps everyday. They obviously play a huge part in the longevity of a diesel engine.

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Old 08-19-2017, 08:56 PM   #13
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the shutters dont give the engine any parameters... depending on if they were factory installed or not, the ECM does have outputs for them, the ECM uses the coolant temp reasing it gets from its operational coolant temp sensor to operate the shutters..

I dont believe there are any feedback circuits to the ECM, though I can look if the OP wants to disconnect them.. the on / off temperatures and enable / disable of the shutters feature is a programmable function in the T-444E's ECM.

-Christopher
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:55 PM   #14
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Thx for the correction, I knew my wording wasn't just right. Thx to god for ECM's...shutters and skoolies
John
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:59 PM   #15
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Thx for the correction, I knew my wording wasn't just right. Thx to god for ECM's...shutters and skoolies
John


Thank you BlackJohn, you are always the voice of reason and leaving well enough alone. I respect that because sometimes it needs to be heard, especially by me - because Im a tinkerer. Luckily, Im a really good one.

Now Cadillac is of the same ilk and he's actually the one who got me thinking about supplementing the cooling - sorry Cadillac - by changing his thermostat, etc. These are all old familiar hot rodder hacks that used to work on gassers. I would not change the thermostat on a diesel because there's too many factors it can alter, many unintended and possibly catastrophic. Adding airflow capacity thats on call if things start to warm up too much seems smart and proactive to me ... especially knowing where I expect to take this bus.

Still on the fence. Thank you guys for your input - I appreciate you. I look forward to meeting you all at Skooliepalooza / RTR if you can make it.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:17 PM   #16
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i changed to a 180 thermostat.. my engine had been built with a 180 at some point. and everything I can find states that 180 is warm enough.. now that said, running with an electric clutch ion my fan factors into it all... at idle and a viscous clutch you are usually still pulling a decent amount of air.. most of them run at a minimum 30-40% capacity. (to deal with the trucks which had A/C..) so a lower thermostat that doesnt close completely or with a large bleed (the 444E does have a decent amount of bleed) could cause you to run in the 160s temp wise in winter.. which is borderline too cold. in winter with some load on the 444E it always ran at 178 or above.. (most often about 182-184.. even in pretty cold weather).. of course at idle. with all my heat on that went down,. (just as it did with my 190 thermostat)..

for park-idle the 444E has an auto temp maintenance feature that I enabled in the computer... it will auto-idle up the engine (trans in N foot off brake) as needed to maintain (I believe 175).. up to a max of 1300 RPM.. (the placard on the dash says to always idle it at 1250 or above)..

if my bus were still a route bus I surely wouldnt have lowered the T-stat.. but its driven like a car and on long road trips.. even in town like a car it is under more average load than a route bus is in a neighborhood.

onto the shutters and them on my DT-360.. the shutters technically only do you good when your engine already running at above thermostat temp... when the stat closes the radiator is pretty much cold already.. what the shutters do is give you a reserve of hot coolant as a "heat store". form when you were moving faster.. so then you either idle down or go into a school route.. your radiator is a source of heat for the heaters until it eventually cools down and the Tstat closes.. long-period idles with all the heat on are still going to require aux heat or high idle..

the 444E auto-idle is a perfect solution as you can run it up but not so much that the tstat opens... and then it slows down when you are warm..

something to think about... is that its entirely possible to program your shutters output on your ECM to operate your electric fan at preset ECM coolant temp settings.. through the use of reverse relays.. (NO / NC contacts) you can use it as a cooling output.

-Christopher
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:29 PM   #17
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And now I will try and say what I said incorrectly in my last post.

Those louvres were installed because the engineers behind that design considered it in need of them. That big hunk of iron gets hot and cold so those also help establish and stabilize the best operating temp for the heating and cooling of that engine.
So my misuse of the word parameters in this case was wrong. The louvres help that engine be the most efficient and best running for what it was designed to do, work under many different circumstances with confidence that it will do that consistently. I think if you mess with them being triggered when called upon, one is asking for problems in the running of that engine.

Read this slow to understand I guess, hard for me to verbalize.

John
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:54 AM   #18
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Controlled electric electric over air temp sensor activated


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