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02-06-2019, 03:47 PM
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#1
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Allison 2000 ID
I’ve come across an Allison 2000 transmission from another bus. The junk yard only wants $700 for it (transmission with Ecu, but not the shifting buttons).
How do I find out if it’s the 5 or 6th speed version?
My top speed of my current 545 w/t444e is 55 at 2500rpm. Trying to figure out what my new top speeds would be with a 5 and speed OD?
Is this a good deal?
I’m trying to decide if I should regear the bus or change the transmission.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
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02-06-2019, 03:51 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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Contact Allison. They can give you all the details from the serial number.
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02-06-2019, 04:36 PM
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#3
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Allison said it’s a 5sp capable of 6sp.. trying to find out the final gear ratio... I think it’s .74
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02-06-2019, 04:44 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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For 1000 & 2000 series the following are supposed be the ratios...
First: 3.10
Second: 1.81
Third: 1.41
Fourth: 1.00
Fifth: 0.71
Sixth: 0.61
Reverse: 4.49
However, I believe there are both wide & close ratio versions. Best to check with Allison. With the serial number they should be able to tell you exactly what you have.
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02-06-2019, 04:49 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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IIRC: 2005 and earlier are 5speed. 2006 and later are 6 speed.
The 6 speed transmissions in school buses typically have 6th gear disabled.
You can upgrade an earlier 5 speed to 6 speed by swapping out the valve body and reprogram the TCM.
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02-06-2019, 05:27 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
For 1000 & 2000 series the following are supposed be the ratios...
First: 3.10
Second: 1.81
Third: 1.41
Fourth: 1.00
Fifth: 0.71
Sixth: 0.61
Reverse: 4.49
However, I believe there are both wide & close ratio versions. Best to check with Allison. With the serial number they should be able to tell you exactly what you have.
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I know the od on a 5 speed 2000 series in a school bus is .74
Edit- you're close. Those ratios you listed are for a 1000. The 2000 series has ever-s0-slightly lower gearing.
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02-06-2019, 05:51 PM
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#7
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Allison 2000 ID
Right on. Thanks for the replies! I’m going to pull the trigger and get it in the morning. Seems like a really good deal, supposedly it came off a bus with the same engine T444e with less than 100k miles.
Since it came off a bus with the same engine and I’m getting the transmission ECM with it I wonder if it’s going to be plug and play?[emoji848]
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02-06-2019, 05:52 PM
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#8
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Allison 2000 ID
.74 final gearing will take my top speed from 55 to 75mph, and my cruising speed from 44 to 60mph[emoji41]
Which I don’t even see the point in trying to unlock 6th gear...
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02-06-2019, 06:02 PM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1bus
.74 final gearing will take my top speed from 55 to 75mph, and my cruising speed from 44 to 60mph[emoji41]
Which I don’t even see the point in trying to unlock 6th gear...
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The only reason I want 6th unlocked is for the fuel economy.
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02-06-2019, 06:20 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue1bus
.74 final gearing will take my top speed from 55 to 75mph, and my cruising speed from 44 to 60mph[emoji41]
Which I don’t even see the point in trying to unlock 6th gear...
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OD is great but I think folks get a *little* too carried away with the whole "have to unlock 6th" thing. I get it, I love modifying stuff for more enjoyable use.
OD would be awesome!!!
This is probably THE best swap especially behind a 444E.
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02-06-2019, 06:22 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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My bus easily runs at 85mph. I don't need more gears for more speed as beyond this just gets dangerous. Fuel mileage difference is substantial though.The 5 speeds have OD.
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02-06-2019, 06:33 PM
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#12
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Honestly I don’t wanna cruise faster than 60mph at that speed I’ll be turning around 2000 rpm which is perfect. My goal is to cruise between 55-60 and get good fuel economy. My bus is a RE so it’s shaped like a brick and will have a top deck soon so I don’t see the point cruising faster than 60, with that much air resistance my fuel economy will go to **** no mater the gearing.
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02-06-2019, 08:38 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 8,462
Year: 1946
Coachwork: Chevrolet/Wayne
Chassis: 1- 1/2 ton
Engine: Cummins 4BT
Rated Cap: 15
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"Cruising speed"...but at what rpm? The best game plan is to gear for your chosen cruising speed to be within about 10% of your engines sweet spot...which will always be within about 10% of its' peak torque rpm.
On my 4BT for example, that spot is 1800 rpm so all my re-gearing was designed to run about 63-65 at those rpm's. I can always push a little harder if needed but keeping within that range will yield the best mpg's as well as engine life.
Ooops...late reply.
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02-06-2019, 09:58 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
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It will NOT be plug and play, you will need the wiring harness for the 2000 series transmission, which cost me $750 to have made, hopefully the vehicle the transmission came out of is still around and they did not destroy the old harness getting it out
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02-06-2019, 10:08 PM
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#15
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla
It will NOT be plug and play, you will need the wiring harness for the 2000 series transmission, which cost me $750 to have made, hopefully the vehicle the transmission came out of is still around and they did not destroy the old harness getting it out
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Damn, the bus it was removed from was destroyed as a monster truck thing.... I’m going to have to figure out the wiring.. the transmission is coming with its own ECM though.
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02-06-2019, 10:34 PM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
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It is going to cost, just the plug ends you need will be several hundred dollars, I saved about 100 dollars because I had the yellow and red plugs for the TCU because the scrap yard cut the harness instead of figuring out how to unplug them, there is also a big round plug that goes into the transmission plus about 4 small ones on the trans, at least one to the engine ECU, diagnostic port to the inside of the bus, another for trans temp gauge if you want one. I bought my 2000 series before I found out about the wiring harness, if I had known that the harness was going to cost more than the transmission I probably have done an axle ratio swap instead
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02-06-2019, 10:37 PM
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#17
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,001
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
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Another thing that you need to know is that the TCU body cannot be grounded, must be electrically isolated from the chassis, grounds through a ground wire
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02-07-2019, 08:42 AM
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#18
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Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mud Lake, Idaho
Posts: 136
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Even if it was destroyed in a monster truck show, the wiring and connectors you need might still be intact?
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02-07-2019, 09:16 AM
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#19
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Skoolie
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 152
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Looks like they have a wiring harness, I’ll pick it up tomorrow.
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02-07-2019, 10:51 AM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,850
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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you'll need to repgoram the Navistar ECM transmission type from AT/MT to Allison MD. so that your dashboard speedometer works, cruise works, and you dont set error codes in the computer..
sounds like you got this project under control!. is the TCM a single connector TCM or a 2 connector?
if its single connector, its a 6 speed capable trans and TCM.
-Christopher
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