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Old 05-07-2015, 11:57 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Snowflake, Arizona
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Year: 1996
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Chassis: All American Rear Engine
Engine: C-8.3-300 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 40 Prisoners
What you need to do is go to some of the RPM vs Speed calculators and determine
what Engine speed you want to have at a given highway speed. Cummins suggests
200 to 300 RPM over max torque rpm for best miles per gallon. They also say don't
run a diesel at max torque as it may shorten life of engine. Don't know if this is
applicable to the Detroit but I would think so. So determine your max torque RPM
add the 2-300 rpm then add the transmission ratio in high gear less the % of
slippage for the torque converter and divide by the differential gear ratio and
multiply by the tire revolutions per mile or something like that. then you can
change the differential ratio up or down in the equation to determine your best
ratio.

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Old 05-09-2015, 10:19 AM   #22
Bus Geek
 
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Those figures sound about right, and I do believe it applies to all engine makes/models, with the exception of 2 cycle detroits. They seemed to run the best/most efficient when tached out.
When I was doing my rear gear vs trans swap I made and excel spread sheet where I could input the numerous variables(trans gear, axle ratio, tire diameter, engine speed) and it would spit out an rpm. I then correlated all that data into a graph so I could see my gear splits and top speeds and everything. I then made 3 or 4 different graphs to compare one trans and or axle combination to the other.
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Old 05-09-2015, 09:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Those figures sound about right, and I do believe it applies to all engine makes/models, with the exception of 2 cycle detroits. They seemed to run the best/most efficient when tached out.
When I was doing my rear gear vs trans swap I made and excel spread sheet where I could input the numerous variables(trans gear, axle ratio, tire diameter, engine speed) and it would spit out an rpm. I then correlated all that data into a graph so I could see my gear splits and top speeds and everything. I then made 3 or 4 different graphs to compare one trans and or axle combination to the other.
Sounds great. Where is the link so we can all use it?
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Old 05-09-2015, 09:26 PM   #24
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I usually use this one.

Gear Ratio Calculator

I like you can put in two different ratios. left side and right side then compare numbers.
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Old 05-30-2015, 04:38 PM   #25
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Find a TRUCK GEAR shop- give them the ratios and let them know what you are aiming for. These guys know their stuff and can order the ring and pinion sets- Do not go to a junk yard- There are so many risks in getting someone elses gear set- new bearings and ring and pinion to fit your unit. That is the way to do it right- a gear shop will set the lash and set the bearings to perfection. Its too big a issue to shade tree it.
Jack Google RIGHTGEAR.com
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:22 PM   #26
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Do you have an affiliate/associate in FL? California is too far to drive at 55mph and 2700 rpm. I tried Advanced Driveline in Orlando but they will only do the swap if I bring in the parts. They won't supply them, just install and then good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
That is the way to do it right- a gear shop will set the lash and set the bearings to perfection. Its too big a issue to shade tree it.
Jack Google RIGHTGEAR.com
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:50 PM   #27
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Go to a local truck repair (semi-Truck) shop and ask who they recommend for gear work.
The place that does transmissions will do the gear swap too. Even a dealer will do the work and guarantee it. I re geared a truck and it made all the difference in the world.
Jack
But do some homework- ask a local trucker where they would go. Most guys with dump trucks have a good shop they take their trucks too.
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Old 05-31-2015, 01:07 AM   #28
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I bought the whole differential assembly from the truck parts place, they have a guarantee on it, I could not buy a ring and pinion set for a spicer N190 (now N400) for $600, it would have been close to $1000 just for the gears then having to pay someone to assemble and set it up would have probably been several hundred more
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:19 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
I bought the whole differential assembly from the truck parts place, they have a guarantee on it, I could not buy a ring and pinion set for a spicer N190 (now N400) for $600, it would have been close to $1000 just for the gears then having to pay someone to assemble and set it up would have probably been several hundred more
Exact same story here. I priced mine out through eaton and was looking at $1000+ in just parts. I would have done the work myself but 99% of people would have to add labor on top of that under the hope that the guy putting it together knows what he's doing. I'm not saying all used stuff is good, but most truck scrappers aren't out to con people into buying junk. Most of them will also include some sort of warranty with parts like that.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:22 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by HolyBus View Post
Sounds great. Where is the link so we can all use it?
I don't know how to link excel documents to a page. I don't think photobucket will do that either. I guess I could email it to you if you really want it. That link from hvbuzz looks pretty good.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:01 PM   #31
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I bought Kubla's used rear end and helped my dad install it. Very very simple if you install the whole assembly and not just the gears. It took us maybe three hours. If you have a floor jack (we used a motorcycle jack which made it even easier), a rachet set, and a pneumatic wrench, you can do it easily on your own without paying a mechanic. An overhead hoist makes the job much easier too, since it weighs probably 250 lbs. You do want to make sure it's the whole "hog's head." I'm sure it's much more difficult to install just the gears. Thanks, Kubla!

My old one's for sale now if anyone needs a Spicer N-190 with a 6.11 ratio.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
Find a TRUCK GEAR shop- give them the ratios and let them know what you are aiming for. These guys know their stuff and can order the ring and pinion sets- Do not go to a junk yard- There are so many risks in getting someone elses gear set- new bearings and ring and pinion to fit your unit. That is the way to do it right- a gear shop will set the lash and set the bearings to perfection. Its too big a issue to shade tree it.
Jack Google RIGHTGEAR.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
Go to a local truck repair (semi-Truck) shop and ask who they recommend for gear work.
The place that does transmissions will do the gear swap too. Even a dealer will do the work and guarantee it. I re geared a truck and it made all the difference in the world.
Jack
But do some homework- ask a local trucker where they would go. Most guys with dump trucks have a good shop they take their trucks too.

No thanks, way too high of cost for no real gain.

We are not talking about setting up gears ourselves. We are swapping entire third members with the gears already set up and running fine.

Junk yards here are full of them from every manufacture. All at a fraction of the cost of new parts, and a 10th of the cost of a shop setting up gears from scratch.

You sound like your trying to advertize the company in the website you posted. ??

Nat
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
I don't know how to link excel documents to a page. I don't think photobucket will do that either. I guess I could email it to you if you really want it. That link from hvbuzz looks pretty good.
Here's the spreadsheet, courtesy of Booyah45828:
bus gearing.xlsx

Dropbox will ask you to sign up when you click the download button. You don't have to. There is a link at the bottom of the sign up window that reads, 'No thanks, continue to download'.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:52 PM   #34
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Finally got my bus back from the mechanic that put it in, runs fine, need to get the computer updated so the speedo reads right, now I need to do the tranny swap and put the Allison MT643 in
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:54 PM   #35
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I swapped out my third member over a month ago to 4:10's. Best money spent to date on the bus. I bought a used third from Vanderhaags. Like said before, you can get a warranty from most places like that. Vanderhaags also have their own service department. I did the swap my self, because its not hard if you have a decent transmission jack. I too have to completely disagree with dirtdoctor. Swapping third members makes more since then a ring gear swap. In Dana type axles you are stuck with a ring gear swap, but these are no Dana axles.
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Old 06-16-2015, 06:43 AM   #36
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The best of both worlds is to go over drive on the trans and keep the lower ratio rear, this will get you the lower gearing to pull mountains and the denefit of higher gears when the engine can pull them, one thing to consider is does your engine have the horsepower to pull taller gears? As in my case I have a DT 360 with 190 horse have a 5.11 rear and at545 my engine simply wouldn't pull taller gears. It will run out of governor around 63 and will get 7 mpg , before I built my conversion the same bus got 14 mpg. Most of the decrease is because I went up four feet on the roof so now the engine has to move more air than a barn door in a thyphoon . I can live with all the numbers for now mostly because to change it all is costly.
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Old 06-16-2015, 06:52 AM   #37
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aye carumba! 4' raise?! Is it front engine or rear? I picture and icecream sandwich on its edge. No offense. Mine is front and no raise. I don't want to go crazy with the gearing, just a little better.
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Old 06-16-2015, 07:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvingoffgrid View Post
The best of both worlds is to go over drive on the trans and keep the lower ratio rear, this will get you the lower gearing to pull mountains and the denefit of higher gears when the engine can pull them, one thing to consider is does your engine have the horsepower to pull taller gears? As in my case I have a DT 360 with 190 horse have a 5.11 rear and at545 my engine simply wouldn't pull taller gears. It will run out of governor around 63 and will get 7 mpg , before I built my conversion the same bus got 14 mpg. Most of the decrease is because I went up four feet on the roof so now the engine has to move more air than a barn door in a thyphoon . I can live with all the numbers for now mostly because to change it all is costly.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvingoffgrid View Post
The best of both worlds is to go over drive on the trans and keep the lower ratio rear, this will get you the lower gearing to pull mountains and the denefit of higher gears when the engine can pull them, one thing to consider is does your engine have the horsepower to pull taller gears? As in my case I have a DT 360 with 190 horse have a 5.11 rear and at545 my engine simply wouldn't pull taller gears. It will run out of governor around 63 and will get 7 mpg , before I built my conversion the same bus got 14 mpg. Most of the decrease is because I went up four feet on the roof so now the engine has to move more air than a barn door in a thyphoon . I can live with all the numbers for now mostly because to change it all is costly.
You'd be surprised what 190 horse can move. I've got around that and on flat ground can get to 70 in my conventional nosed bus. Granted, it doesn't get there in an instant but it will get there. I'd say your problem is that you're trying to push a "barn door in a thyphoon" lol. That's the first I've heard of that one.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:23 PM   #40
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Gee Nat, the company I referred folks to is called a referral. I've had them do all my gear work on my fleet of dump trucks for over 24 years. They are a solid honest company.

Someone asked - I just tossed my .02 in
Jack
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