DT466 white smoke

[AaronTSchultz]

Thanks for everybody's input. I just wanted to let you all know I went to the international dealer. My DT466E is specked for a blowby of 6 and my engine was doing 2.5. I will ask him about it being white smoke and what he thinks it is. I will also ask if he did a test on the drained oil, and keep a close eye on the oil and the coolant to see what is going on. If anything I will do the next oil change, and do a blackstone test then.

The engine was supposed to have the green coolant, but at some point he said it was switched over to the newer red coolant, so it was ok that I put that stuff back in.

Basically he gave me a good health report and we are planning to head out on our first real trip middle of august.

Picking up the Bus, and getting new tires Tomorrow.

Wish us Luck.

[jazty]

Glad to hear the blowby is within spec! Very good.
Did the tech run a cylinder contribution test? I would want to get a good health report back from that test as well to ease the mind.

[AaronTSchultz]

Thank you.!

[BamaBus]

Originally Posted by AaronTSchultz

Also there was red coolant in it when I got it from the school district. So I had to refill it and I used the red prediluted 50/50 high mileage. but after calling the international dealer they said it was supposed to be the green stuff. Would this cause blow by?

Originally Posted by AaronTSchultz

The engine was supposed to have the green coolant, but at some point he said it was switched over to the newer red coolant, so it was ok that I put that stuff back in.

Wish us Luck.

Did the dealer ever say which standard the coolant for your engine year needs to meet? There are different formulas of red coolant and the local dealer doesn't seem to have an answer.

[AaronTSchultz]

one dealer said because it was a 1999 it should have had the green coolant but if it was flushed and a different filter put in at some point the red coolant is fine. So when I asked and picked up the vehicle they said the red coolant is good to go.

[AaronTSchultz]

Well, 2nd Update, and most of you won't find this surprising.

Went on a long trip from denver, up to wyoming, down to Tahoe, over to the coast, up to washington on the 101, and back through portland.

Well, after about 1,000 miles into the trip I noticed the coolant was a bit low. so I added enough in the container to be within the fill/full line. The next morning it was back to almost empty. And now the sludge started. I was hoping to make it through the trip, as there was no other option because we had appointments in denver.

Around portland our engine would not start one morning, with crazy sludge coming out of the breather valve. Somehow I put more oil in and coolant, and it thinned out the oil enough to start it later in the day. I realized the coolant only entered the oil pan when the engine was completely cold so I idled it in the middle of the night for about 30 minutes to bring the temp back up, and it has been working fine.

Obviously it's probably a cylinder liner seal. that's off so we are expecting to rebuild our engine, but the international dealer had verbally quoted me about $15,000 for the parts and labor. This seems super high to me and I wanted to check in with everybody to see if this is what an Inframe rebuild on a 1999 DT466e should run. Also would you recommend I buy the rebuild kit from international or is there a better quality rebuild kit out there that I should look into.

We are going to be selling our home and traveling for at least a year around the U.S. and I really would like to get the bus mechanically sound so I don't have to worry about it over the next year, other than normal oil changes and maintenance.

Any Advice would be great.

Thanks

[EastCoastCB]

Yeah for a complete rebuild at a dealer 15k doesn't surprise me.
Is that a TOTAL rebuild? if so that's a lot more reasonable than the timing cover quote I got. Ten g's for those timing covers!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Wow... A cylinder liner already? I'm starting to rethink these DT466Es...

[cadillackid]

15k is about right for a shop to inframe rebuild an engine.. you will get liners, seals, valves, bearings, gaskets, pistons, the head should get worked as well.. injectors will be tested..


you can ask for a complete rundown of what they do and ask what is not incliuded but could be a possible caveat.. ie if injectors are required thats another grand or more..



what you will end up with is a fresh motor ready for 200,000 + more miles.. if you only p[lan to travel in your bus for a year then i would think long and hard about a full rebuild vs finding a good running used engine.. or rebuilding it yourself (if your mechanical skills are up to par)..


-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Wow... A cylinder liner already? I'm starting to rethink these DT466Es...

the issue is no one knows the history.. it couldve been overheated a few times in its prior life.. or run out of coolant and left to site where a liner could dry out..

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by AaronTSchultz

The engine was supposed to have the green coolant, but at some point he said it was switched over to the newer red coolant, so it was ok that I put that stuff back in.

Does anybody know if this is correct? My bus is the vintage that requires the silicates and I'm petrified of getting them mixed up and destroying my liners. I took my bus in to the shop today and I even printed this out for them:

****IMPORTANT INFORMATION****
International AFC# G-03908. Applies to DT466E engines built between August 1, 2000 and January 22, 2004.
Silicate Additive Kit # 8000845R91 needs to be added to antifreeze.

They work with school buses all the time so I assume they know this stuff but I just wanted to make sure for my sanity.

But is there no harm done by the silicates (which I'm assuming are in the "pink stuff") to a pre-2000 engine? What exactly are they doing in the coolant, anyway?

[cadillackid]

when you say "Pink stuff" what do you mean?


"pink coolant" is a brand of Peak called Fleet-charge.. it has the SCA additives built in.. so if you install that and then install a pre-charged coolant filter and dont have any major losses you are good for a pretty long while.



the red coolant. aka similar to Finalcharge global is a formulation that you dont add any silicates to and it prevents cavitation..



from what I understand the lack of silicates wont destroy the liner seals.. unless the real issue is the liner got eaten up..


now onto this engine.. something caught my eye.. you mentioned that it wouldnt start one morning.. im assuming it was hydrolocked and would try and turn over but then Jam up? if so thats not a liner seal thats a head gasket (could be a cavitated liner but not near as likely)...



if the head gasket is blown thats a lot less expensive than an engine overhaul..
-Christopher

[musigenesis]

Someone on here just a few days ago was looking to sell a rebuild kit for a DT466e for $300, IIRC.

[Booyah45828]

Silicates are one of a handful of supplemental coolant additives aimed at preventing corrosion, cavitation, etc.

Modern antifreeze removes some(HOAT) or all(OAT) of the SCA's(silicates, phosphates, nitrates, borates, etc.) because those items will fall out of suspension when used in vehicles with egr coolers. That's because the SCA's are supposed to coat the metal surfaces, and when they do that in an egr cooler, they essentially become baked on, allowing another layer to coat and then be baked, until the cooler is plugged solid.

Modern coolants aren't exactly maintenance free, but they require less maintenance then traditional green antifreeze. If it's got an egr cooler on it, we use final charge with it in the shop. If it doesn't have an egr cooler, then we use traditional green. We have the test strips and bottles of sca, it's not hard to maintain it. And the cost to convert over old equipment to modern coolant isn't worth it in my eyes.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

I have actually seen situations where even with a complete flush to remove the original type coolant completely, changing coolant types caused a problem... Hopefully this is not the case here.

[rffffffff]

It seems a bit high to me. I paid $12k or $12.5k if I recall correctly and that came with a rebuilt head from international and they boiled out and pressure tested my radiator on a flat nose front engine bus which has a higher labor cost. 39 hours I think if I recall correctly, plus the kit and the radiator stuff, and a new water pump I think. Been a few years but that’s my recollection. The bus is magic since then, soooo much better and runs great. Had to change the fan clutch and can sensor along the way but it’s a different experience driving it.