DT466E HP Ratings and Differences

EastCoastCB · 06-12-2018, 07:38 AM

What are the physical differences in DT466E's between the different power ratings?

I'm shopping for a complete engine for my bus. I've got a 2003 DT466E that's rated at 215hp/540tq. Is the actual block assembly the same as the lower rated models?

Seems there are two families of DT's. ST and HT- or standard torque and high torque. I know the HT models have differences from the ST's such as turbo and injectors. Maybe pistons are different for the HT models. Not sure about crank or cam but I doubt it.
But ST DT's of this range of years are in 175, 195, and 215 ratings. HT's, I believe, come in 215, 230, and 250.

Anyone actually know the differences?

Can I simply plug my 215hp ecm onto a 195hp engine and make it 215?

If so this would make engine shopping a lot easier. I don't see many 215hp engines for sale.

rensch26 · 06-12-2018, 10:36 AM

The HPOP gets upgraded as well in applications above 230HP I believe. As far as the lower HP levels go the only thing preventing you from taking a more powerful ECM and plugging it on to your lower HP engine would be injectors. I don't think the HPOP or turbo would need to be upgraded for that but the injectors may need to be.

Block is the same, crank, rods, cam, etc. I do believe that higher HP level engines do get different pistons though.

EastCoastCB · 06-12-2018, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensch26

The HPOP gets upgraded as well in applications above 230HP I believe. As far as the lower HP levels go the only thing preventing you from taking a more powerful ECM and plugging it on to your lower HP engine would be injectors. I don't think the HPOP or turbo would need to be upgraded for that but the injectors may need to be.

Block is the same, crank, rods, cam, etc. I do believe that higher HP level engines do get different pistons though.

I'm hoping my injectors and ecm will be all I need.

Thanks!!

johnbloem1974 · 06-12-2018, 06:56 PM

I've been following this thread... I have a 175hp DT466e. If I can find a 230 HP ECM and just be able to plug n play? That would be sweet...

John

EastCoastCB · 06-12-2018, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

I've been following this thread... I have a 175hp DT466e. If I can find a 230 HP ECM and just be able to plug n play? That would be sweet...

John

So- yeah probably!??
230 STANDARD TORQUE possibly. But the High Torque 215, 230, and 250 engines have different hard parts. Different beasts! Bigger injectors, turbo, HPOP, and probably more as mentioned above.

Hopefully this thread gets us some REAL info as google has virtually nothing.

If we stay on topic and get to the core of the discussion it would also make for a GREAT sticky!

EastCoastCB · 06-12-2018, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

I've been following this thread... I have a 175hp DT466e. If I can find a 230 HP ECM and just be able to plug n play? That would be sweet...

John

If someone has a spare ECM or one you could try that would be pretty cool to find out about.
I have a possible source of one you could try. Let me see what HP rating I can find for cheap of free. Don't hold your breath, but I will try!

johnbloem1974 · 06-12-2018, 07:57 PM

I've been waiting for Chris to chime in too... this kinda stuff is right up his alley!

Let's keep the fingers crossed...

Joh

EastCoastCB · 06-12-2018, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbloem1974

I've been waiting for Chris to chime in too... this kinda stuff is right up his alley!

Let's keep the fingers crossed...

Joh

I've been chatting with him via text. He seems to think the lower rated engines can be bumped up to the higher settings. But yeah I'd love to hear any ideas from him on this.

rensch26 · 06-12-2018, 09:38 PM

I believe anything that is listed as standard torque all use the same components. The only difference may be the injectors and ECM. I believe all high torque engines got a larger volume HPOP, possibly different turbo, different injectors, and I believe they received a different piston to deal with the higher cylinder pressures and heat.

I like to use sites like this to look at all of the different injectors that came in the 466E over the years. The descriptions are not always 100% accurate so keep that in mind. My engine is a '98 230HP High Torque with 660 lb-ft of torque. It originally came with "BG" injectors but those were discontinued so the recommended replacement was "BJ" injectors. These injectors are good for a 250HP tune but I would assume my ECM would need to be reprogrammed to take full advantage of that extra 20HP.

International DT466E / I530E / DT466 Injectors | Alliant Power Injectors | Diesel Injectors | Buy Diesel Performance Parts | Huckstorf Diesel Pump and Injector Service Inc of Wisconsin

plfking · 06-12-2018, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

He seems to think the lower rated engines can be bumped up to the higher settings.

Looking forward to any more info on this......I'm HP-challenged also.

Any knowledge of performance chips for the 466? I've seen advertised claims of 30% horsepower / 15% fuel increases, but very little discussion on this site about them.

rensch26 · 06-12-2018, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plfking

Any knowledge of performance chips for the 466? I've seen advertised claims of 30% horsepower / 15% fuel increases, but very little discussion on this site about them.

I personally wouldn't bother. All the chips do is make the computer think that that oil pressure supplying the injectors (ICP) is lower than it really is. So the computer compensates and tells the oil pump valve (IPR) to divert more oil to the injectors, thus increasing injection pressure. Your initial throttle response will be more aggressive and with that being the case you will probably see your fuel mileage actually take a hit.

plfking · 06-12-2018, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensch26

I personally wouldn't bother. All the chips do is make the computer think that that oil pressure supplying the injectors (ICP) is lower than it really is. So the computer compensates and tells the oil pump valve (IPR) to divert more oil to the injectors, thus increasing injection pressure. Your initial throttle response will be more aggressive and with that being the case you will probably see your fuel mileage actually take a hit.

Thank you for the info. I kinda figured if they actually worked people would be raving about them...........but it never hurts to ask.

johnbloem1974 · 06-12-2018, 11:11 PM

I actually got one of those "performance chips". It plugs into the ICP sensor. Didn't do a Damn thing. Zero. Nada. Maybe I got a bum unit, I don't know. I put a call to the company and I'm waiting to hear back...not exactly holding my breath...

John

johnbloem1974 · 06-12-2018, 11:20 PM

I really hope to hear more about being able to swap out an ECM. Even if I could go up to 210 would be nice... now just need to figure out where to find a working one... maybe a junkyard? I see s bunch on EBAY, but the seem like they are not programmed...

John

EastCoastCB · 06-13-2018, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensch26

I personally wouldn't bother. All the chips do is make the computer think that that oil pressure supplying the injectors (ICP) is lower than it really is. So the computer compensates and tells the oil pump valve (IPR) to divert more oil to the injectors, thus increasing injection pressure. Your initial throttle response will be more aggressive and with that being the case you will probably see your fuel mileage actually take a hit.

Yeah, I've no interest in those either. They're a ripoff.

EastCoastCB · 06-13-2018, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensch26

I believe anything that is listed as standard torque all use the same components. The only difference may be the injectors and ECM. I believe all high torque engines got a larger volume HPOP, possibly different turbo, different injectors, and I believe they received a different piston to deal with the higher cylinder pressures and heat.

I like to use sites like this to look at all of the different injectors that came in the 466E over the years. The descriptions are not always 100% accurate so keep that in mind. My engine is a '98 230HP High Torque with 660 lb-ft of torque. It originally came with "BG" injectors but those were discontinued so the recommended replacement was "BJ" injectors. These injectors are good for a 250HP tune but I would assume my ECM would need to be reprogrammed to take full advantage of that extra 20HP.

International DT466E / I530E / DT466 Injectors | Alliant Power Injectors | Diesel Injectors | Buy Diesel Performance Parts | Huckstorf Diesel Pump and Injector Service Inc of Wisconsin

This is more or less what I've found too.

rensch26 · 06-13-2018, 07:16 AM

I've said this before but I'll say it again. The best bang for your buck to boost the power in these electronic engines is going to be a water/methanol injection system. Upgrading injectors, turbos, hpops will get very expensive very quickly.

From everything that I have seen when a water/methanol system is applied to a turbo diesel engine you can reliably count on about a 10% increase in horsepower and torque. That would push my bus up around 250HP/725 lb-ft of torque. Still safely within the limits of my MD3060 transmission. As soon as I scrape together the cash I will be installing a system from Snow, Banks, or AEM.

But I do believe that if you can find a working ECM from another 466E within the same time frame you shouldn't have any problems boosting power that way as long as you have all the necessary hard parts.

cadillackid · 06-13-2018, 07:45 AM

Let the navistar dealers be your friend.. if anyone has a very similar year bus with different HP rating.. simply call a navistar dealer and say you need a turbo and a set of injectors for your VIN.. and then for the VIN of the other HP rated bus..

then compare part numbers.. cross reference and see what if any differences exist.. the 175 - 215's all seem to be the same when you look at buying reman Long blocks.. so that tells you that pistons, cams, HPOP, etc are the same up to 215..

the 444E's are the same 99.5 Model year plus from 175 - 210 Horsepower. all AD injectors except for one AE added in the 01 model year for a "knock" issue..

with the 444E's it was pretty easy to tell as the valve cover stamping with the HP rating is the same sticker part number (yes the sticker has a part number) up through 210 and then changed for 230 and 250 (didnt even know a 250 existed )..

im not sure if you guys have stickers on 466E's with different stamps ?

in the 444E's the HPOPs are all the same.. in fact from what I read, the HPOPs on the 444E's are more powerful than the ones ford used .. as the tuner guys are putting 444E HPOPs on their fords.. the HPOP for the 466E may be the same.. all it is just an oil pump.. not a particularly high volume oil pump just a high pressure oil pump. when you get into making high revs thats when your HPOP requires more volume.. the ford guys put 2 HPOPs on as they tune heavily and run revs up to 4K+ in some cases.. each stroke of the injector piston requires an Oil shot..

some people claim you can gain Horsepower.. quite a bit of it by upgrading your injectors and "fooling" your ICP.. im about to embark on upgraded injectors.. I got a set of 15-20% higher flow injectors for my 444E.. the horsepower gained claims to be similar (if not more because of turbo) than that.. if I gain 15% from my 190.. i'll be at just above the 210 my engine internals are designed for.. I dont want to over-run my internals just wake it up a bit..

my guess is upgraded ECM's sell for quite a bit over the low HP ones.. and whatever you do never plug NAVKAL into an ECM that wasnt built for your Bus.. NAVKAL will mismatch the VIN on the ECMand the data you enter into your account and downgrade it.. ServiceMaxx is perfectly safe.. it doesnt reprogram the firmware..

-Christopher

rensch26 · 06-13-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

in the 444E's the HPOPs are all the same.. in fact from what I read, the HPOPs on the 444E's are more powerful than the ones ford used .. as the tuner guys are putting 444E HPOPs on their fords.. the HPOP for the 466E may be the same.. all it is just an oil pump.. not a particularly high volume oil pump just a high pressure oil pump. when you get into making high revs thats when your HPOP requires more volume.. the ford guys put 2 HPOPs on as they tune heavily and run revs up to 4K+ in some cases.. each stroke of the injector piston requires an Oil shot..
-Christopher

I'd be curious to know whether the 444E and 466E share HPOP designs. I've never seen them listed as 444E/466E HPOPs (like they are interchangeable) and the Powerstroke HPOP is not the same as a 466E so my assumption would be that they are not the same but I don't have any verification.

The 466E has two different HPOPs, one is the "021X" and has a 5.3cc pump for lower HP applications. The other is the "020X" and has a 6.5cc pump for high HP applications.

https://www.accuratediesel.com/store...HPOP-020x.html

https://www.accuratediesel.com/dt466...pump-hpop.html

Mike_T · 06-13-2018, 10:58 AM

I second cadillackid,
In the case of my 2006 2500HD and a 2006 3500HD single wheel the only difference is slightly bigger tires 245 to 265, steel Rims and an extra leaf in the spring pack. Everything else shared the same part numbers.
I found on several sources the DT466e is good for Power output 170-350hp (commercial), 375hp military
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_DT_engine
I don’t see why a simple tune couldn’t bump you 50 HP.
I would look into some of the more reputable Diesel tuners and see what they have to say.
Using something like a https://www.efilive.com/ might be just the ticket you are looking for.

Mike

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