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Old 08-17-2017, 02:18 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: International FE
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 84 passengers
DT466E Injector O-rings and Cups

I have a 1999 AmTran FE with a DT466E in it. The bus was experiencing some sputtering when the bus was under a load like accelerating through the gears from a complete stop or driving uphill. The problem gets worse as the engine warms up and the oil thins out. I hooked 100 psi of air up to the high pressure oil rail (per the International trouble shooting manual) and saw bubbles coming from the injectors. This would mean that I'm losing fuel injection pressure and is contributing to my engine sputtering when under a load.

I pulled the injectors out and replaced all of the o-rings and cleaned the injector cups out with rags and degreaser. I sucked the oil and fuel out of the cylinders and reinstalled the injectors and torqued them back down. I hooked the compressed air back up to the oil rail and am still getting some air bubbling past the o-rings. Not as much as before but I don't believe I should be getting any air past according to the manual. I took the bus out for a long drive to work air bubbles out of the system and the bus was behaving just as it did before. Sputtering while driving up hills or while shifting through the gears from a dead stop.

I will take the injectors back out and try doing an even better job of cleaning the injector cups and see if that helps the o-rings seal better. If that doesn't fix the air leak past the injector o-rings my question is is it possible for injector cups to distort? The bus has 211k miles on it. Maybe it's not a bad idea for me to go ahead and put new injector cups in it but I'd like to understand if others have had this problem as well and what they did to fix it.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:30 PM   #2
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I know there was a problem with the 7.3's that the injector cups could crack.., the 466E uses a very similar setup, are you setting any codes in regards to the ICP or IPR? it almost sounds like the injection control oil pressure is low.. the rail fuel pressure is usually 47-65 PSI depending on the engine variant..

where are you seeing the bubbles at? coming up out of the head into the valve cover area? if thats the case.. are you gaining oil level as you drive? or does the oil smell like fuel?

-Christopher
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:39 PM   #3
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I haven't taken it to anyone yet to get the computer scanned for any codes yet. I'd love to do it myself but I'm not sure what I'd need to buy in order to do so. I did unplug the ICP sensor and it didn't seem to make it run any better so I believe the ICP is ok. I do think that my IPR valve could be contributing to my lack of injection pressure but I'm trying to eliminate this problem first and see if my sputtering continues.

Yes, the air bubbles are escaping past the top o-ring of the fuel injector which means hot, thin oil is escaping past that o-ring into my valve cover and draining back into the pan like the rest of the oil under the valve cover.

I recently changed my oil and sent a sample to blackstone labs in Fort Wayne, IN and the report came back in really good shape. No fuel or coolant was found in the oil. So the injector cups are not cracked and are still sealing off the coolant flowing through the head. So I'm just wondering if maybe I need to do a better job of cleaning the injector cups (maybe buy an actual brush designed for the job) or I'm wondering if it's possible for the cups themselves to distort?
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:43 PM   #4
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When I had issues with my '99 IH/Amtran FE I took it to the international dealer and they scanned my codes for free.

Could be a very small micro crack in the injectors or cups

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Old 08-17-2017, 02:47 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Originally Posted by dmattarn View Post
When I had issues with my '99 IH/Amtran FE I took it to the international dealer and they scanned my codes for free.

Could be a very small micro crack in the injectors or cups

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Ok, thank you. I'll try to take it to my nearest dealership soon and see if they'll scan it for me.

I don't believe there is a crack in the cups. That would mean I'd be getting oil or fuel in my coolant (both the oil and fuel operate at a higher pressure than the cooling system) and that hasn't been the case yet.
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:52 PM   #6
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oh Ok.. I was thinking you were pressurizing the fuel rail and not the Injection oil rail.

if the WARN ENGINE light is on while its running there are codes set. you should be able to turn the key on (but dont start) and then press and release the diagnostics button thats next to the round connector under the dash.. this should cause the WARN light to flash you out the codes in sequence. then we can look then up.. they are 3 digit codes.. so you would see say flash-flash pause flash-flash pause flash would be '221' then it pauses longer and flashes the next code out.

-Christopher
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Old 08-17-2017, 02:56 PM   #7
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Ah yes, pressurizing the oil rail. I measured my fuel pressure off of the fuel filter housing and it was within spec so I moved on to the oil system.

The Warn Engine light was only on while I had the ICP sensor disconnected. Thank you for the information about the flashing of the codes. I was unaware that you could do that.
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Old 08-18-2017, 06:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rensch26 View Post
Ah yes, pressurizing the oil rail. I measured my fuel pressure off of the fuel filter housing and it was within spec so I moved on to the oil system.



The Warn Engine light was only on while I had the ICP sensor disconnected. Thank you for the information about the flashing of the codes. I was unaware that you could do that.


That switch is momentary so press and hold while turning key to on then release it. Get ready to count codes/ copy down. Active codes will come first, followed by inactive. Three flashes together means no more codes or if thats all you see there are none in history either. This was my experience


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Old 08-18-2017, 09:21 AM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meteoricide View Post
That switch is momentary so press and hold while turning key to on then release it. Get ready to count codes/ copy down. Active codes will come first, followed by inactive. Three flashes together means no more codes or if thats all you see there are none in history either. This was my experience


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Awesome. Thanks for that bit of information. I'll definitely do that.
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Old 08-18-2017, 11:12 AM   #10
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Engine: DT466E
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I got to thinking about my problem a bit more. I realized that the injector cups probably don't have anything to do with my oil leaking past the top o-ring on the injector. The injector cups are very far down in the injector bores and do not come close to the high pressure oil being delivered to the injector. The injector cups simply allow heat to transfer from the injector to the coolant system.

Perhaps the injector bore itself is dirty and needs to be cleaned better in order for my o-rings (specifically the two o-rings towards the top of the injector that are responsible for sealing in the high pressure oil) to seal. I'm also wondering if the injectors maybe just need to be torqued down a little more. The torque spec according to the engine manual is only 120 in-lbs.
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