Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-28-2019, 11:54 AM   #1
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
DT466e injector removal - how many beer job?

Looking to remove the injectors from my 97 DT466e this afternoon so that I can get them tested and look at the orings.
Thanks to those that have helped me get this far!

I have a 6 of the Beast in the fridge. Is this a bigger job than that?

Thanks
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2019, 11:59 AM   #2
Skoolie
 
Doe69936's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 177
Year: 2005
Chassis: School bus
Engine: Cummins
Figure on 2 - 3 hours be sure to drain the hpop oil from the head or like I do crank the motor with the injectors out to blow out the oil that drains into the cylinder when you rem9ve the injectors or risk hydrostatic lock up and engine damage
Doe69936 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 11:53 AM   #3
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
Thanks Doe,

I ended up putting it off to do some more research.
how do i drain that oil is it big round plug on the back beside the head?
Also, i read something about draining fuel also, not sure how to do that.

https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=8990
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190428_165136.jpg (215.8 KB, 13 views)
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 02:15 PM   #4
Almost There
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 74
No experience with the DT466e but they use the same injectors as the T444E so the concept is the same. If you are pulling them out of the motor the Orings are bad. they can't be reused. So order a new kit. I had my injectors rebuilt by jim at rosewood diesel. great prices and quick turnaround time. If you send them to him his prices include new o rings. I had my injectors pulled in about 5 beers... and I have 8 of them in a ford cutaway (no room to move). Edit... If you pull that oil rail plug you will also need a set of orings for that to re install. I dont think you need to take that out to change injectors. Just make sure to purge the motor thru the glow plug holes (NOT the injector holes, then fuel and oil mix and shoot everywhere) before trying to restart.
E450Shorty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 03:08 PM   #5
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by E450Shorty View Post
Just make sure to purge the motor thru the glow plug holes (NOT the injector holes, then fuel and oil mix and shoot everywhere) before trying to restart.
The DT466E does not have glow plugs so clearing the cylinders must be done through the injector holes instead.

I’d probably have a few more than a 6 pack at the ready. Just go slow, take a ton of pictures and you’ll be able to do the removal and install. As for releasing fuel pressure in the rail you can poke the Schrader valve on the fuel filter head or (I believe) the one on the back of the cylinder head to let the pressure go. Wear eye protection just in case!
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 03:20 PM   #6
Almost There
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by WARGEAR View Post
The DT466E does not have glow plugs so clearing the cylinders must be done through the injector holes instead.

I’d probably have a few more than a 6 pack at the ready. Just go slow, take a ton of pictures and you’ll be able to do the removal and install. As for releasing fuel pressure in the rail you can poke the Schrader valve on the fuel filter head or (I believe) the one on the back of the cylinder head to let the pressure go. Wear eye protection just in case!
Well you learn something new every day I guess. Thanks!
E450Shorty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 05:37 PM   #7
Skoolie
 
Doe69936's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 177
Year: 2005
Chassis: School bus
Engine: Cummins
I've never personally given any thought to releasing fuel pressure as it's so low anyway nor have I bothered with the drain plugs in the Head I've just popped out the injectors and let it all dump into the cylinders just be sure to change the oil when you are done. As for purging yeah it's messy through tbe injector or the glow plug ports but didn't know that motor didn't have. Glow plugs either but then again I've only had the valve covers off 7.3s on trucks
Doe69936 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 01:22 PM   #8
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
Thanks fellas! Injectors out

Really appreciate the help with this fellas, you are great!

I was able disconnect the fuel file from the rail, but couldn't get That oil plug out to let it drain, so will still have to deal with that so it doesn't hydrolock or whatever was mentioned.

Here is a pic. on the 5th down, the top o-ring was torn, and on the last one, the bottom o-ring seemed shaved off and the bottom end is black and rougher.

So now to send them off.

It may be a while before they come back, i can throw a trashbag over the head, but does the hood do a pretty good job of keeping rain out? I have never really checked?

Thanks!
dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190504_114534.jpg (392.6 KB, 23 views)
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019, 01:32 PM   #9
Skoolie
 
Doe69936's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 177
Year: 2005
Chassis: School bus
Engine: Cummins
Quote:
Originally Posted by MambaJack View Post
Really appreciate the help with this fellas, you are great!



I was able disconnect the fuel file from the rail, but couldn't get That oil plug out to let it drain, so will still have to deal with that so it doesn't hydrolock or whatever was mentioned.



Here is a pic. on the 5th down, the top o-ring was torn, and on the last one, the bottom o-ring seemed shaved off and the bottom end is black and rougher.



So now to send them off.



It may be a while before they come back, i can throw a trashbag over the head, but does the hood do a pretty good job of keeping rain out? I have never really checked?



Thanks!

dave
If you found bad o rings and it were me I would replace the o rings and try starting it before sending them off because usually when you find a problem visually it's solved not always but usually
Doe69936 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 02:56 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
This is one of those “while you’re in there” cases. Good idea sending them out to be rebuilt. Cover the whole head with a big ole trash bag and duct tape it to the motor. Last thing you want is foreign shizzlewizzle getting into the cylinders, oil galleries, head, etc. The right most injector does appear suspect. If you have access to a borescope take a gander inside the cylinders and see how the walls look. Gives you an idea of how long the motor has left before a rebuild is a good idea.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 05:44 PM   #11
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
Quote:
Originally Posted by WARGEAR View Post
you have access to a borescope take a gander inside the cylinders and see how the walls look. Gives you an idea of how long the motor has left before a rebuild is a good idea.
I was going to try this, but the head on my cheap scope is too big to fit through the injector hole.
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 01:31 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 376
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
While you have the head apart you should pull the oil pan and replace the crank bearings(main bearings) $200. It's a 5 beer job too, but will basically put you with a new motor provided the pistons and sleeves are in good shape.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2019, 06:23 PM   #13
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 4
Depends on the beer.
azdave85650 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 01:58 AM   #14
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Port angeles, Wa
Posts: 293
Year: 90
Coachwork: bluebird conventional
Chassis: international
Engine: dt466
Rated Cap: 72
Here is a trick I learned years ago. This would apply to any engine like this. Remove the rearmost injector first. This lets all the oil and fuel go into that cylinder. Before you install that injector, get your handy dandy vacuum pump and suck out all the fluid. Make sure you get into the combustion bowl. After full reassembly, roll the engine over by hand a few times or bump the starter over a few. It would be wise to unplug the ecm. Once you sure there is no hydrolock, hook it all up and crank away. Be prepared for lots of smoke at first.
bluebird90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2019, 08:01 AM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,139
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
i came in late here to this party..



1. Injector O-rings should be replaced if you pulled the injectors.. i consider them one-use parts.. esp if they have been installed for years.. rubber O-rings conform to the shape of the space they are occupying.. the chances that an O-ring is rotated slightly on injector removal is high.. as is the likeliehood one is ever so slightly damaged when being removed.. esp older rings that have been heated and cooled a bunch..



I would consider re-using them if you simply Bummed an injector install and needed to pull it soon afyer ot has been installed..



you are dealing with 3000 PSI on the HPOP side..



secondly, you need the oil to be out of the cylinders.. fuel will likely run by the ring-gap and into the pan but oil will stay and will ruin things quickly..



the HPOP is mechanical. and even at minimum the IPR will command flow.. so cranking the engine by starter will pump oil into the cylinders with the injectors out. a couple turns may be OK but you may see oil flowing right back in if the drain plug hasnt been removed..



putting the injectors in and rotating the engine by hand 4 turns (yes you will be tired and tempted to use the starter but dont). is a good rule i have used for clearing cylinders...

rotating by hand allows you to "feel" the hydrolock.. it also allows oil in the cylinders to be under pressure. and squeeze by the ring gap and on the exhaust stroke into the manifold.



Change the oil !!!! whether you pull the pan and change the bearings or not is up to you.. I tend not to touch bearings unless im either doing a full rebuild /inframe or have signs that my bearings are heavily worn.. (low hot oil pressure, noise)..



-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 08:56 AM   #16
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
i

putting the injectors in and rotating the engine by hand 4 turns (yes you will be tired and tempted to use the starter but dont). is a good rule i have used for clearing cylinders...

rotating by hand allows you to "feel" the hydrolock.. it also allows oil in the cylinders to be under pressure. and squeeze by the ring gap and on the exhaust stroke into the manifold.


Change the oil !!!! whether you pull the pan and change the bearings or not is up to you.. I tend not to touch bearings unless im either doing a full rebuild /inframe or have signs that my bearings are heavily worn.. (low hot oil pressure, noise)..



-Christopher
Thanks for the tips!
Got my injectors back from SoCal today, excited to get them installed, but a few more questions.

I had planned to use a syringe with a tube thru the injector hole to try and remove most of the fluid from the cylinder. does that make sense to do?

Christopher, I can try your method above for manually turning the engine. so that is after i have the injectors all in right? Also how do i manually turn the engine?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190520_203612.jpg (224.3 KB, 5 views)
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 09:18 AM   #17
Skoolie
 
WARGEAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 195
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
Manually turning the engine is achieved by using a BFW (big frackin wrench) or equivalent on either the bolt in the crank pulley or an accessory on the motor.

I’d do it with the injectors out until each piston hits TDC (top dead center) and then try and use your syringe method to remove any fluid that may have gotten into each cylinder.
WARGEAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2019, 08:41 PM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: the Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 236
Year: 1997
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: 466e
Rated Cap: its Yuge
Tried sucking liquid out with syringe, but didn't get much out of any of them except for one. Does that seem normal? I tried to pull them out pretty quick so a lot of them started running pretty good as soon as i got them out.



Also, upon inspection, one of the wires going to the injector electronics did seem like it wasn't quite right, interested in ideas on how to test it. Will include a pic.

Also, this rusty spot behind the fan the best spot to try and manually turn in? I am going to need a bigger wrench!

Thanks,
dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190521_190334.jpg (290.8 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20190521_185805.jpg (230.9 KB, 18 views)
MambaJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 08:32 AM   #19
Almost There
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 74
It might be a good idea to change that harness for a new one while you are in there. also turn the engine from the crank pulley (closest to the ground). Don't forget to take the breaker bar off the pulley before you start it tho... Don't ask me how I know...
E450Shorty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2019, 08:36 AM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 12,139
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
that big nut is the fan clutch.. its a 2" wrench.. and if the belt doesnt slip you can turn there..



I turn my engines after they are all back together as there is no worry ofthe fuel or oil pump sending liquids back down into the cylinders.. turning slowly means you will squeeze the liquid out without damage..



its likely to see more liquid in one cylinder than others as the first injector you yanked out will cause the rail itself to drain into that hole.. and then the next most.. would be the one that is physically the lowest in relation to gravity..



I rotate mine the hard way which is underneath with a pry bar or big screw driver in the flywheel from the inspection hole.. yeah its the hard way.. i painted a mark so i k new when i made a rotation.. it was easier for me to lay on a creeper and take my time than it was to tr yand muscle the engine... Muscles and body weight to throw at an engine arent something i have much of....


I should be glad the next one I do is a 444E with glowplugs so i can spin the engine with the starter...



the wires are important.. I suggest replacing that plug-in injector harness whenever swapping injectors if they have been in for a long time.. the plastic plugs get brittle over the years from constant heat and oil...



-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×